Turbocharger for mercruiser 140

StCroixGarrett

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Has anyone put a turbo on a mercruiser 3.0? I've seen lots of turbos on ebay that appear to be water jacketed but I'm not sure that would be necessary. Can any diesel guys offer some input?
Thanks!
 

45Auto

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It's been done many times, M&W used to make a kit for it. Turned out to be much cheaper and more practical to just to drop in a 4.3 V6.

MW.jpg


From what I understand, you needed to prop the turbo like a standard 4 cylinder 3.0 to get it out of the hole (low RPM, very little turbo benefit, high torque requirement), but it needed to be propped like a 6 cylinder 4.3 to take advantage of the greater power at planing RPM.

Since a typical boat doesn't have a transmission to allow the engine to reach higher RPM's and multiply torque at low speeds, the turbo on a boat was like putting a turbo on a car with an automatic transmission and locking the transmission in high gear. The torque converter (analogous to prop slip in the over-propped boat) would allow it to accelerate slowly till it finally reached sufficient RPM for the turbo to provide some benefit. But it would be very unimpressive at low speeds.

Should be more info on some of the racing forums, a Google search ought to find you lots of info.
 
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Scott Danforth

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A turbo on a 3.0 is like a chrome plating on a turd. Waste of time and money, however a shiney conversation piece. As 45auto indicated it has been done, however the results were miserable
 

Grub54891

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I'm tempted to do it, My son found one pretty reasonably priced... but I don't want to wreck the motor.
 

HorizonblueDK

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At a point there was a turbokit for the Mercruiser 140, I believe. I wouldn't wast time and money on such a project, find a larger engine = V6.mercruiser140turbo.jpg
 

H20Rat

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You do not want to turbo a marine gas engine that isn't designed for it (ie, low compression) Marine gas engines run extremely high load values, and the cylinder pressures with boost would be enough to pop the engine fairly quickly, at any decent boost level at least. High load and low RPM is death for a turbo gas engine. Also, that is completely ignoring the fact that the housing of even a water cooled turbo is way, way above what you would want in the engine compartment of a boat.

I'd find a blower instead, if such a beast exists for a 3l. MUCH easier to tune for, no issues with heat, and you can keep boost within reason. Or just drop in a 4.3 for way cheaper than any FI project will cost you.
 

thumpar

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A blower/supercharger makes more sense on a boat. They make power at lower RPM. A turbo doesn't get power until it is in the high RPM range. If you look at high performance boats they all run superchargers, not turbochargers. I know that boats run different that cars but I have driven both a supercharged cars and turbo cars. The supercharger takes off from the start. The turbo has a lag.
 

Watermann

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Yeah the parasitic effect of running belt driven boost is not the way to go... RMP lag for turbo boost, not a problem any longer with the new electric turbos and you don;t need to worry about the exhaust plumbing.

electric-turbocharger-micro-electric-car.jpg
 

Bondo

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Yeah the parasitic effect of running belt driven boost is not the way to go... RMP lag for turbo boost, not a problem any longer with the new electric turbos and you don;t need to worry about the exhaust plumbing.

electric-turbocharger-micro-electric-car.jpg

Ayuh,.... How much boost do ya think a bilge blower will give,....

I'm thinkin' it's a restriction, 'n not any boost,.....
 

HT32BSX115

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Ayuh,.... How much boost do ya think a bilge blower will give,....

I'm thinkin' it's a restriction, 'n not any boost,.....
Well, yeah........

AND if the electric motor WAS powerful enough to spin the turbine fast enough, it would need to get it's power from somewhere! That would be the alternator.

So lessee........ if the belt driven blower was "sucking" say, 10HP of parasitic drag..........10hp = approx 7500Watts.

To get 7500 W (@14v) you would need an alternator that would produce around 550 A PLUS the heat losses in that alternator + the heat losses in the electric motor!

Lets assume 85% efficiency. For a 10HP motor, you would need to supply approx 12hp to it (in watts) ...........APPROX 9000W

Now lets assume approx the same efficiency in the Alternator (they do get HOT)
so to produce 9000w of power the alternator would be actually producing around 10500 W! (or 14hp) because some is lost as heat...........

In a nutshell, the engine would need to provide roughly 14HP to operate the Alternator for powering the electric motor driven turbocharger!

The belt driven blower is more efficient. (than the electric blower)

BUT the exhaust driven turbocharger if MUCH more efficient because the exhaust (energy) used to drive it is "lost" anyway.

[disclaimer.......I used 85% motor and alternator efficiency to illustrate a point]

Bruce?
 

thumpar

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Yeah the parasitic effect of running belt driven boost is not the way to go... RMP lag for turbo boost, not a problem any longer with the new electric turbos and you don;t need to worry about the exhaust plumbing.

electric-turbocharger-micro-electric-car.jpg
That looks like something the Honda boys would put on along with their fart cannon. If superchargers are so parasitic why do the big boats run them?
 
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Watermann

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That looks like something the Honda boys would put on along with their fart cannon. If superchargers are so parasitic why do the big boats run them?

LOL, yeah it does but the warning sticker looks marine. My guess would be big boats don't have 4 bangers... every single HP means something to small motors.

Personally I wouldn't bother with adding anything but a bigger motor. That seems to have always worked since the internal combustion engine was invented so I understand the bigger is better thought. Now go drive a new Ford Eco Boost 6 banger in a full size truck, seems the old bigger is better thought is being challenged.
 

HT32BSX115

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Personally I wouldn't bother with adding anything but a bigger motor.
AND , yes. And we've beat that horse many times!

The propeller only knows how much torque that's applied to it and how fast it turns.

The engine size doesn't really matter if it's turning that prop at the required RPM.........AND as such, the amount of power is going to be essentially the same regardless of what is turning that prop.

If it's a tiny little 4 cyl engine turning at VERY high RPM through whatever gears it takes to turn the prop at a given RPM....... to produce a given boat speed,

That engine will be producing roughly the same power as a Big Block (at a lower RPM) turning the very same prop (with different gears) at the same RPM producing the same speed.

Some of that HP will be "lost" in the gear train. (in both gear boxes)


If superchargers are so parasitic why do the big boats run them?
Sterndrive boats and any other boats that have enclosed engine compartments have a rather unique exhaust requirements. The exhaust systems from the manifold-----out, MUST be cool enough so as not to cause a fire.

Turbochargers (NON-water jacketed) get hot enough to ignite anything around them (including vapors)

Belt or gear driven superchargers don't get very hot at all (other than friction losses and the increase in air temp due to pressure increase [ Gay-Lussac's Law!!.....can we even say that?])

BUT they ARE absolutely "parasitic". It takes a fair amount of HP to move large volumes of air while increasing the pressure.

One of the upper limits reached in aircraft piston engine technology was due to power loss in single and 2-stage blowers.

They were able to get more boost (and subsequently more power) by going to exhaust driven "blowers" (turbo-superchargers) because that exhaust was "free power" available to drive the blowers. leaving more available shaft HP to drive the prop.

Since there's few (if any) decent inexpensive turbocharger systems for boats, it's just easier to "bolt" on the supercharging.
 
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thumpar

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But supercharging also fits the way boat engines run better since they make power sooner than a turbo which needs high RPMs to make power. I understand they take off some HP but they will make a lot more than than they take to run.
 

Watermann

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I'm thinking about every gas powered engine I've had needs RPMs to create MAX HP. :)
 

thumpar

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I'm thinking about every gas powered engine I've had needs RPMs to create MAX HP. :)
Yes but with a turbo you HAVE to be at a high RPM to make it useful. At cruise it is probably more of a hindrance than help. I have had both supercharged and turbo cars. When I was younger I rode dirt bikes. The turbo is more like a 2 stroke. They run like a bat out of hell once you hit the powerband but at lower RPM they are slow. The supercharger is like a 4 stroke. They have power from the beginning. I don't like to run my boat at WOT all the time to take advantage of a turbo.
 

Bondo

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Yes but with a turbo you HAVE to be at a high RPM to make it useful. At cruise it is probably more of a hindrance than help. I have had both supercharged and turbo cars. When I was younger I rode dirt bikes. The turbo is more like a 2 stroke. They run like a bat out of hell once you hit the powerband but at lower RPM they are slow. The supercharger is like a 4 stroke. They have power from the beginning. I don't like to run my boat at WOT all the time to take advantage of a turbo.

Ayuh,.... I've been runnin' 'n workin' on turbo diesels for decades, most all of which make peak horsepower, 'n torque at 1500 to 2100 rpms,.....

The turbo boost builds higher the longer rpms are held in check, by the load on the motor,.....

The lack of gearing is the issue with a turbo on a boat motor,....
For an effective turbo gear ratio, a boat can't get out the hole,.....
 

HT32BSX115

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Yes but with a turbo you HAVE to be at a high RPM to make it useful. At cruise it is probably more of a hindrance than help. I have had both supercharged and turbo cars. When I was younger I rode dirt bikes. The turbo is more like a 2 stroke. They run like a bat out of hell once you hit the powerband but at lower RPM they are slow. The supercharger is like a 4 stroke. They have power from the beginning. I don't like to run my boat at WOT all the time to take advantage of a turbo.

Not necessarily, variable vane turbos when sized correctly will make large amounts of boost at rather low RPM, and maintain that boost throughout the powerband.

Turbos can work on any boat.......... and for a sterndrive boat, they must be designed to work in a closed engine compartment. It can happen. But, It won't be cheep!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9nYk3kcdg
 
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