1995 200 EFI will turn over without spark plugs but not with

[mikebfish]

Engine made an unusual noise and died on the lake.Tried to crank and would not even turn over. I thought I had blown the engine. At home, I pulled the spark plugs and wife turned ignition key. All cylinders moved without any unusual noise. I put plugs back in and engine will not turn over. I don't understand, any ideas?

 

[Texasmark]

Not familiar with EFI engines but some part of that may have been your noise.

Get a voltmeter and check the voltage across your battery when attempting to crank with plugs in. If anything less than 11 volts, have your battery checked for internal sulphating and if ok, put a full charge on it. Try again!

If you have at least 11 volts across your battery, go to your starter and measure between the red wire stud on it and the engine block. That should be at least 10v while cranking with plugs in. If not, your wiring between the two is corroded and needs to be disassembled and cleaned.....shiny, and tight on the inside where the current flows. If that doesn't fix the problem, and the voltage is still low at the starter, get a new starting solenoid......contacts probably pitted and won't carry adequate current. If you do have 10v and the starter doesn't want to work it must have an internal short or worn out brushes and is time for a replacement.

 

[Naut]

Sounds like an exhaust valve is broken or stuck closed removing the plug lets air escape

 

[Naut]

Do not try cranking it with the starter anymore until your sure it's not a valve you could possibly damage your engine a lot worse, try to turn it by hand with the flywheel with the ignition OFF if it turns over ok by hand then you can try weak battery ect...

 

[Faztbullet]

Naut, the engine has ports ...no valves except for reeds. Check the lower unit oil for metal as it may have a bearing/gears seized..

 

[Texasmark]

Naut, the engine has ports ...no valves except for reeds. Check the lower unit oil for metal as it may have a bearing/gears seized..

Fazt,
Why wouldn't a lower unit or bearing anywhere problem show itself while spinning with the plugs out vs with them in? Ok so there is unusual friction. Well, wouldn't that show up with the plugs out too?

Ok Mike, with the engine vertical, pull your drain plug and inspect it for metal shavings if it has an included magnetic stub embedded in the plug and also check for any metal parts that may fall out when you pull the plug or that may be suspended in the oil. The magnet on the drain plug is there to capture finite shavings which are normal in a reasonable amount and small in size. If you have chunks of anything, or globs of shavings, then beware. What color is the oil? Since you are there anyway you might as well pull your vent screw too drain all your oil out and put in new. WM has high performance gear oil from Quicksilver/Mercury and an adapter that makes refilling easy.....in the sporting goods section.

 

[Faztbullet]

Fazt, Why wouldn't a lower unit or bearing anywhere problem show itself while spinning with the plugs out vs with them in?

If its partially seized the starter don't have enough torque to overcome the compression of cylinders and additional drag of damaged part

 

[Naut]

Man I'm sorry for the bad info mike I thought those ports had valves in them I feel dumb now I hope you get it straightened out soon

 

[Texasmark]

Man I'm sorry for the bad info mike I thought those ports had valves in them I feel dumb now I hope you get it straightened out soon

It's ok. Just the difference in 2 and 4 strokers. Lots of 4 strokers out there these days so easy to get tangled up.

 

[mikebfish]

I appreciate the help. Let me ask something else. What bearings may be seized up. I can not budge the flywheel with a screwdriver like I have been able to in the past.

 

[mikebfish]

If its partially seized the starter don't have enough torque to overcome the compression of cylinders and additional drag of damaged part

What would be seized-bearings in the power head or in the lower unit?

 

[Texasmark]

Only way to really know is to drop the lower unit. You have crankshaft needle bearings and drive shaft bearings at the top and bottom of the midsection-lower unit....everything but the powerhead and bearings on the F and R gears.

You can eliminate the FR bearings by just putting the engine in N and attempting to turn the flywheel. You really have me confused by your being able to turn the flywheel with the starter with the plugs out but can't turn the flywheel with a screwdriver with the plugs in.

Tell you what. Drop the lower unit. When you pull it the drive shaft and upper and lower bearings plus all the LU bearings.....everything but the crank bearings. You can crank the engine without the LU but you have no cooling so just do it long enough to see that you can or can't do it. Course you could have other problems if the flywheel won't turn with the LU dropped, like rods or broken rings. You can look at the cylinders, pistons and rings through the exhaust ports. You can inspect for galling of a cylinder.

Was your engine hot when it quit? Were you at a high rpm and it seized?

 

[mikebfish]

I am a little confused. Do the upper and lower bearings come out with the lower unit?
I had stopped to fish for a few minutes. Cranked the engine, it ran for about 2 seconds and died. Tried to recrank and would barely turn over and then nothing

 

[wrench 3]

Any body else thinking hydraulic lock?

 

[Faztbullet]

Any body else thinking hydraulic lock?

Not with plugs out......

 

[Texasmark]

I am a little confused. Do the upper and lower bearings come out with the lower unit?
I had stopped to fish for a few minutes. Cranked the engine, it ran for about 2 seconds and died. Tried to recrank and would barely turn over and then nothing

Yes. One is immediately below the water pump that comes out with the LU and the other is just above the pinion gear in the LU gearbox that spins the F and R gears. With the LU out you can turn the drive shaft, cw looking from the side with the shaft up is the normal direction. You can also twist the shifter which is the short splined shaft at the front of the LU into F and N while rotating the drive shaft and see if anything is binding. If all that passes your problem has to be in the powerhead.

Personally I don't see the LU components as your problem, not with what you said in this quote.

Agree can hydro lock with plugs out.

 

[mikebfish]

Only way to really know is to drop the lower unit. You have crankshaft needle bearings and drive shaft bearings at the top and bottom of the midsection-lower unit....everything but the powerhead and bearings on the F and R gears.

You can eliminate the FR bearings by just putting the engine in N and attempting to turn the flywheel. You really have me confused by your being able to turn the flywheel with the starter with the plugs out but can't turn the flywheel with a screwdriver with the plugs in.

Tell you what. Drop the lower unit. When you pull it the drive shaft and upper and lower bearings plus all the LU bearings.....everything but the crank bearings. You can crank the engine without the LU but you have no cooling so just do it long enough to see that you can or can't do it. Course you could have other problems if the flywheel won't turn with the LU dropped, like rods or broken rings. You can look at the cylinders, pistons and rings through the exhaust ports. You can inspect for galling of a cylinder.

Was your engine hot when it quit? Were you at a high rpm and it seized?

Ok, I have pulled the lower unit off. Everything in the LU seems normal. It still binds down and will barely turn over. If it is the upper bearings, where are they and can a semi-rookie replace them? I have removed the powerhead once in the past.

 

[wrench 3]

[Any body else thinking hydraulic lock]
Not with plugs out......

I couldn't decide if he was saying that he couldn't rotate it by hand with the plugs in or out.

 

[Texasmark]

Ok, I have pulled the lower unit off. Everything in the LU seems normal. It still binds down and will barely turn over. If it is the upper bearings, where are they and can a semi-rookie replace them? I have removed the powerhead once in the past.

Silvertip or Faztbullet should be able to clue you in on and quick steps with the aid of your manual. I'd still have a look in the exhaust manifold first. Reason is if you see a cylinder that is really eaten up, you may choose to find a replacement block or engine for a swap out. Course if they all look good then a bearing it is but I would think the bearings would be the last thing to go being ss needle bearings and balls.

 

[Faztbullet]

Poll the cylinder heads and inspect cylinders/pistons....