Fuel line pick up problems

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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35
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum or not...

I've recently had some problems with my engine on WOT. It will accelerate about up until I get onto plane, and then it bogs down and I have to throttle back. Yesterday when I was out on the water, I noticed that the primer bulb was completely flat when this occurred, and did not come back to full round until a few minutes later. The engine idles fine, runs fine under low rpm's, and even under medium throttle. I changed the primer bulb out with a new one, and I am in the process of changing out the fuel line.

I also wanted to check the pick up inside the fuel tank, and the anti-siphon valve, but this is where I am stuck. I can't seem to get the metal pick up to loosen in the plastic tank. I don't want to crank too hard on it for fear of breaking something. (I really think that this boat was made around the gas tank, because there is no way possible to get it out without cutting fiberglass.) I've included some pictures of the pick up fitting. I was able to get the hex nut loose that is on the bottom of the fitting, but the rest of the fitting seems like it is screwed into the tank. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

1996 Nitro Fish and Ski
Centro 32 gal tank - model 09032
Tracker (Mercury) 120 hp


 

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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Sorry, I thought that there was something wrong with the forum and this got posted 3 times...
 

midcarolina

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Jul 16, 2013
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631
Check the tanks vent line and make sure it is not obstructed or kinked..........
 

enginepower

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jul 5, 2014
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Ethanol can make your fuel lines soft and collapse. Would check/change those before breaking something on your tank. You could also try running it with the cap open. If that helps the situation, your vent is restricted.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,036
The antisiphon valve is often inside the fuel line nipple screwed into the elbow of the fuel tank. Two wrenches, one on the elbow and one on the nipple will usually loosen it, but you need to be real careful not to put any force on the plastic tank, as they can break easily.
 

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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Thanks, I'm going to check the anti-siphon on the fitting, but I want to be careful that I don't break anything. there is very little to no room to work with, and when I tried applying pressure to get the anti-siphon part off, it really flexed the tank. I'd like to get the whole pick up part off, so that I can have more room to work on the anti-siphon, but I need more advice on how to get the whole apparatus off.

Does anyone know if the elbow fitting is just screwed into the plastic tank? It looks like it is, but it wouldn't move much when I applied pressure. I didn't want to apply too much pressure for fear of breaking something...

I will also check the vent elbow, but not until I get a good idea on how to get that one off as well...
 

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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35
Check the tanks vent line and make sure it is not obstructed or kinked..........


Vent line is fine. It runs to the gas cap. I blew some air through it, and it came through without any problems. Not sure about the fitting on the tank though...
 

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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35
Can anyone tell me if the metal elbow fitting is just screwed into the tank? I'm fearful of trying to turn it if it can't actually turn. It looks like it should just screw out, otherwise you would never be able to get the uptake out...
 

jpdodd

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So, I check the elbow that goes into the tank which is the vent. There was no obstruction there. The hose to the gas cap is clear as well.

I was able to look inside the barb fitting that the anti-siphon valve is in, and from what I can see (which is not too much) it looked o.k. The spring and ball bearing were shiny and didn't look like there was anything wrong there.

I have not tried to take off the uptake (until I get a little more information on how to do it).

Today, I took off the quick release fitting to the motor, and stuck the end of the gas line (after the primer bulb) into a container. When I squeezed the bulb, a small amount of gas came out - about what I expected to come out from just the bulb - but it took about 6 - 7 seconds for the bulb to fill back up. It kept pressure (felt firm) and did the same thing each time I squeezed it. Can anyone tell me if this is a clue as to whether the bulb is bad, or that the uptake is fine?
 

Faztbullet

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Mar 2, 2008
Messages
15,589
If it a grey fuel line the lining is likely to come apart stopping up check valves in bulb. Suggest you change line and bulb as if flat as you posted th fuel pump sucked it dry and stoppage is between bulb and tank.
 

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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If it a grey fuel line the lining is likely to come apart stopping up check valves in bulb. Suggest you change line and bulb as if flat as you posted th fuel pump sucked it dry and stoppage is between bulb and tank.


Gotcha. I'll post more when I get the new line and bulb in.
 

jpdodd

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So I had a chance to test out the new equipment today. Here's what I found..
I replaced the whole fuel line from the engine to the tank. I also installed a new anti-siphon. When I first got onto the water, I ran the engine from a separate 5 gal portable tank. I ran up and down the river for about 10 minutes and it ran great.

Then I hooked up the line to the onboard tank, and within a minute I had the same problems. SO, the problem is definitely with the pickup in the tank. I also noticed that I couldn't get the primer bulb firm. It was almost like there was a leak in the pick up line. It had no problem getting firm in the portable tank.

Now my decision lies with whether to try and get the fitting off or just take it to a marina and let them try to fix it. Does anyone have any suggestions? I could try to get the pickup fitting off, but I run the risk of breaking the plastic tank (which cannot come out without cutting the boat up)...
 

enginepower

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jul 5, 2014
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Well at least now you know for sure. If you think you may break the tank trying to repair this, do you have a different spot you could mount a new pick up assembly? If you have enough access, would be much easier than cutting boat up to remove a tank.
 

jpdodd

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Nov 2, 2010
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Well at least now you know for sure. If you think you may break the tank trying to repair this, do you have a different spot you could mount a new pick up assembly? If you have enough access, would be much easier than cutting boat up to remove a tank.


So, I'm guessing that would require a new hole (probably with a drill bit - possibly plastic gets into the tank?), a new fitting - does this get threaded or just sealed in some way? Anyone ever done this before that could give me some help / hints?

Also, if there is some gunk in the tank, how do I get that out so that it doesn't happen again? (Being that I cannot remove the tank, or get inside it to easily...)
 

jpdodd

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So, I called the manufacturer of the fuel tank...they don't make tanks anymore, and his advice was not very encouraging. He basically said that the fitting was molded into the tank and it was near impossible to get it out. WHY a company would make a fitting on something that couldn't come out is beyond me... Anyway, I tried to get the fitting off. It started to turn, but that's all it does. It's apparently not threaded into the tank. I tried pulling up on it, and turning it many times, but nothing helped.

I asked the guy about making a new pick up, and closing off the old one, but he said that I wouldn't be able to get it sealed properly. SO, now I'm resigned to cutting the fiberglass behind my rear seats to get the tank out of the boat (again, why would someone make a boat with a fuel tank that can't be taken out is beyond me...). At least I'll be able to put a new hatch in behind the seats so that I can get the tank out again if need be.

Thanks for all of the advice, but I have one last question... I did some searching and the only tank that would fit my boat was a moeller that was13 gallons smaller than the one I currently have (32 gal). I should be able to get around on 19 gal. o.k. (except for the tubing...) Are there any other manufacturers of fuel tanks that are reasonably priced?
 

enginepower

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Well, before you go cutting up your boat, I would at least TRY to get something to work. They make fuel resistant epoxies that might seal off old one. You could buy a generic pick up tube for length you need. Cut a hole for it and cut another hole nearby so you can get your hand in to tighten a nut on the pick up. Install some riv-nuts and make a metal patch to cover your hole that will seal with a rubber gasket. Another way would be use the cut hole for hand idea and have the feed tube installed on that instead of having 2 holes.
 

Chris1956

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Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,036
A lot of those plastic tanks have metal fittings moulded into them to secure the fuel pickup gauge sender and vent fittings. The pickups and vent fittings can be pressed into the fittings, or they may screw in. Usually the sender will be screwed into the tank. Can you get the gauge sender off? If so, you may be able to reach the backside of the fuel pickup.

On my plastic tank, the fuel pickup was plain steel. After that rusted out, I needed to replace it with a bronze garboard drain fitting, as that was the closest in form and fit. During the replacement, I ended up stripping one of the screw threads moulded into the fuel tank. I was able to drill it out and put a nut on the inside, via the gauge sender hole. Something like that could work for you. You need to take your time and do the engineering.
 

snowbrd84

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Sep 23, 2012
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215
Take a can of compressed air like for cleaning keyboards etc, shake it up, hold it upside down and direct the spray to the fitting you want to try and break free. The metal will contract ever so slightly by the extreme cold and be easier to then remove. By very careful and use eye and face protection. Obviously you dont want to use heat when dealing with a gas tank, so this is the alternative.
 

jpdodd

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
35
A lot of those plastic tanks have metal fittings moulded into them to secure the fuel pickup gauge sender and vent fittings. The pickups and vent fittings can be pressed into the fittings, or they may screw in. Usually the sender will be screwed into the tank. Can you get the gauge sender off? If so, you may be able to reach the backside of the fuel pickup.

On my plastic tank, the fuel pickup was plain steel. After that rusted out, I needed to replace it with a bronze garboard drain fitting, as that was the closest in form and fit. During the replacement, I ended up stripping one of the screw threads moulded into the fuel tank. I was able to drill it out and put a nut on the inside, via the gauge sender hole. Something like that could work for you. You need to take your time and do the engineering.

I never thought about the guage sender being installed in a hole... unfortunately, it is further back under the deck and harder to reach then the pick up... If I have to cut an access hole to get to the pick up, I might try that.
 

jpdodd

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
35
Well, before you go cutting up your boat, I would at least TRY to get something to work. They make fuel resistant epoxies that might seal off old one. You could buy a generic pick up tube for length you need. Cut a hole for it and cut another hole nearby so you can get your hand in to tighten a nut on the pick up. Install some riv-nuts and make a metal patch to cover your hole that will seal with a rubber gasket. Another way would be use the cut hole for hand idea and have the feed tube installed on that instead of having 2 holes.


So, I guess the trick with doing this would be to make sure everything gets sealed? I was told that I couldn't put a new pick up in by the manufacturer.. but maybe that was a liability issue? Any chance you can be more specific on the parts and epoxies needed? I would much rather try to install a new pick up line than cut up my boat...

Does the tank expand and contract like other stuff? Would there be any issues with sealing a "patch" on the tank that I should be aware of?

I'm pretty handy, but plastics and epoxies are not my area of specialty.. I work with wood :)
 
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