mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

[timmybuddhadude]

I have searched through the forum for similar problem diagnosis and read lots of help and advice so thanks to all...
However I still have the same problem but have worked through alot in the last week..
Can someone please help?
Basically it starts and runs for a few seconds then dies. I've checked and replaced some hoses for fuel/air leaks..there seems to be none. It can be sucked into the carb by mouth and into the filter and out. I replaced the primer which squirts direct into engine as you guys know..and it fires. But it runs a few seconds then cuts. However three days ago i did get it to run for a few minutes when throttle on 3/4 and in forward gear ( but stalled when placed in neutral)
I've done alot of things to this lately when i got it it seem the exhaust or water telltale hose which comes out of the top just by lid base via a hose at the back..was blocked with dirt/sludge..so yes I cleaned it (is that exhaust? i figured it was just maybe blocked...)
Have also taken it down the shop and got carbs cleaned and a compression test..compression was good

When it comes to electronics it had a bad earth or switch on the safety switch black wires//so wasnt starting initially. I got this info from downloading cdi electronics 2stroke. with that disconnected it ''fires''
I get 12v via multimeter when i pull the flywheel to the points at the ends of both connectors which go onto the cdm coils(2)
and 90% of the time i get spark but not sure how intermittant to both sparkies(yes cleaned/replaced)

But still it doesn't CONTINUE!

When I got it it had heaps of dirty fuel so i preplaced it with 50/1 mix..was aso pretty much unused for over a year...
I have no idea if the tell tale comes out as it doesnt run long enough
any advice would be much appreciated..I've been working on it for a week and am pretty keen to finish it off
Please help if you can!

Do i have to test trigger/magnet now..if so how can i tell? where else can there be too much air getting in? it goes pop after three seconds
I do see a little spark inside the flywheel and under..is this normal? rubbing magnet plates??
Thanks

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

What is the s/n of your engine?

Gerry

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

thanks! 0g565966

 

[racerone]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

Where do you see 12 volts when you have the flywheel off ??---------The ignition system on this motor does not use battery voltage to make spark for the plugs !!!

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

sorry..my internet keeps going down talking to the states but grateful..its a states' engine! if you are in the states..

i put red in the green and black in the two blacks via multi at four pin end connection that goes into cdm...jumps 6v+ .. #when pulled#..
hence leads to a spark but seems to just spark on both when both cdms plugged in
switched green and yellows...without both cdm coils plugged in i normally get 12v (or 6 depending on how hard pulled etc) to the ends of green black four pin connectors but the lower coil doesnt seem to fire although it has current when pulled..
both coils fire in top plug but when both are on both sparks go. no idea if that is normal
to me elecs seem ok ..i go by this by the fact i get elec crank when pulled..but thats just on the 'pull' of course..no idea about if it 'continues to spark' (trigger?)

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

That s/n comes up as:

MERCURY - ( 40 H.P. (1997 ))
Serial No: 0G565966 Model No: 1041213TD

Parts list for model 1041213TD:

30/40 H.P. - Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. Parts Lookup

The service manual you require for your engine is P/N: 90-826148. If you do not have this manual, see my message to you in Notifications at the top of this page.

If you have had the engine run for a few minutes, we know it will start. When you pump the primer bulb does it firm up?

When you say you see a little spark under the flywheel, presumably this is when it is running and is it there all the time the engine runs?

Gerry

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

Hi Gerry.. and thanks..
primer does ''firm up'' since i bought a new one and replaced it with hoses..previous one was cracked..maybe it wasnt necessary to replace in the hot type climate where it was kept..
sparks yes when it runs briefly i see sparks and i dont know if that was normal i read it may be the magnet scrapeing? Just when running and occasionally..

it ran for a few minutes ONCE on 100% fuel...straight after carb cleaning/fuel drainage i havent overloaded the fuel with oil in the new mix..

incidentally its also missing a small screw on the left of the air mixture screw ...but according to diagrams i have managed to download that is nothing..the idle screw is lower down(on the carb)..

 

[racerone]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

You ran this motor on straight gas for a few minutes ??----Why ?

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

Another thing to eliminate is the fuel pump operation.

If you can get it running again, have someone hold the primer bulb in their hand and as soon as the engine starts to die, start pumping the bulb. If the engine picks up and runs and keeps running as long as you pump the bulb, you have a problem with the fuel pump and may require a kit for it.

As for the sparking under the flywheel, I think I would be lifting the flywheel to examine the wires from the stator and trigger to make sure that there is no exposed/chafed wiring, especially where there is bends in the harnesses.


Gerry

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

You ran this motor on straight gas for a few minutes ??----Why ?

Racetone if your not going to help please dont respond..i need help with this hence posted.. no offence
Even you ...if you know about motors would know how to test an output after cranking. Of course i realise its not on a battery or key switch and not worth installing
surely you would know how to test that????!?!?
Also as done down the shop all was cleared and good fuel put in. i tell a lie it wasnt 100% on gas i knew there was residue in the filter bulb from the shop..it was in that intemittant period only and when switched with my mix after many many threesecond failed attempts i did get a good run when under load only..
thankyou
any good advice from you?

gerry yes manual would be good any other positive# input much appreciated....
Gerry I had a friend help pump the bulb..no it didnt continue.....
but probably would and was close to when primer continuously pumped
apparently fuel pump was replaced two years ago but still unsure how to test this.... ; ..but i guess going by what you have said r.e pumping bulb that make the fuel pump ''fine''...
i will do that as you said with flywheel tomorrow but not sure how that can effect its continued running it probably doesnt
Today i took off the exhaust and cleaned it..it was blocked as said. I am confused at this stage if that hole as said above in first post is actually the tell tale on this motor or exhaust..when i pulled it after it was cleared (solid mud!) a small bit of smoke came out so i assume was exhaust..but i did think the exhaust was bigger than just one hose
i wonder if it got cooked through blocked exhaust? but compressions fine..

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

latest discovery is i discovered a bleed hose had a hole in thanks to gerrys manual!.. this was replaced..and i thought that might be the only thing needed ..not so..
i got it to run for two minutes again thanks to using 100% fuel again briefly and what was still left in the filter..so perhaps it is too rich?
But same thing it pops chugs stops
the two sparkies still seem okay.....

I have attached a pic of where the spark /flame comes out of if it works
can someone please tell me what this is and if it is ''normal''?

and i saw no telltale despite being cleaned..

basically symptoms are in it starts..runs good.. chugs &pops via that hole..them boom stops
i really need some help here... can someone please tell me what it is doing when it spurts a bit of flame through that hole pic attatched? thanks all

according to this image from jerrys manual the hose is supposed to attach from the HOLE to the fuel pump??
But am unsure because obviously its all hot in there etc..

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

latest discovery is yes that should be attached as it drives the fuel pump but am not attaching it with small flames coming out of hole!
But it seems broken... this engine was in a total state i have no idea how it ever seemed to work with all of these small things
so am about to see if timing is aligned/not too far out...
if timeing is okay am going to order a cdi box

can someone tell me also if the cdi box can cause all of these symptoms..considering compression was all okay?\

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

Tim;

You have to slow down and start to get things sorted one at a time. The first thing is if the telltale is not producing a water flow, it is time to drop the lower unit and inspect the impeller. You have to be certain you get the cooling system correct or you will have major problems. The impeller is what provides cooling water to the engine and if the impeller cannot supply it, the engine will overheat very shortly. As well, your engine has a poppet valve as well as a 120 degree thermostat and both of these should be checked for correct operation as they are in conjunction with the impeller in the cooling system. Both the poppet and thermostat can be further compounded by operation in saltwater and poor maintenance of the engine.

When the engine first starts, you may not see an immediate flow of water through the telltale until the engine heats up enough to open the thermostat which is set at 120 degrees.

Do you know if your oil injection system is working or has it been disabled?

Also, what is the history of this engine? Did you just get it or have you had it for some time?


Gerry

I am trying to find p/ns to deal with your bleed line issue but you should deal with the cooling system first.

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

okay..will check them but as you said the engine probably doesn't go until 120 degrees am sure of that! although in the past telltales were more or less immediate.
No idea about oil injection but suspect disabled.
Just got the engine(&boat) through someone with mutual friends so trusted them. It has been in a very remote US RAF base in a remote area in WA thats hot. Hasnt been used for 18mnths then brought to perth and started shortly every three mnths then one day it just ''went on one cyclinder'' apparently and stalled. past owner believes cdi unit/trigger..& now works offshore no time to fix it.
i came across heaps of issues with it such as elec shut off switch needed dimantling replaced &primer ...but main one not sorted

thanks

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

The reason I ask about the oil injection is I didn't know what you meant about using 100% fuel. It is imperative that you know whether the oil injection is working or not. Did the previous owner tell you if he was pre-mixing fuel at 50:1 or not.

If the telltale has been immediate in the past, pull the thermostat cover to see if there is actually a thermo in there or not. Your s/n calls for a thermo and a poppet but there are also models of that engine which use neither.


Gerry

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

past owner didnt tell me to mix the fuel 50/1 ..the mercury dealer shop did !..;
i'll read up if to find any injection but my last yamaha outboard had a hub to put the oil in etc..this one doesnt..
..I meant ''100% fuel'' by having two canisters inside the boat..one as premix with 2stroke ..the other 100% fuel

Previous motors have had immediate telltales. This one doesnt. For sure i will open it up down below and check the system there if i can or clean if need be or perhaps mud''further up'' inside the lower cowling hole where the hoses were all blocked.

The attached(but broken now) hose from fuel pump to that hole which sparks/flames as in pic..i am told generates power to move/activate the diaphram in the pump etc. I can't attach it at this stage with a new hose because of the flames..they will surely burn the pump&diaphram. What comes out of that hole surely can't be ''normal''? That line/hose is different to the bleed hoses x2. the broken one of those was replaced today..and in the right direction..

thanks Gerry

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

The hose in picture 1 of post 11, which comes off of the fuel pump, (item 23 under FUEL PUMP (MANUAL) of the Parts list) is seen going upwards from the fuel pump but we cannot see the top end of that hose. Is it there under the cowling not connected to anything?

Gerry

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

Thanks

Its sticking up vertically from the FP ...there is a snapped bit inside. The hole that spurts has a twistable connection. To me it is pretty obvious it has snapped off..but I cant reattach it until i find out why it is spurting minor flames through that hole.
This could well be what caused it to 'break' in the first place....(!)

I can't find any attached picture on the web..neither can I find any information or name of the hole.. :
The neighbour of a friend however has said that it is attached to drive the fuel pump power somehow..
I believe this as it obviously should be attached..90% sure on that!

I ## really really ## need to know why that hole spurts small flames when popping. If its not normal (do you think it is??) then it leads to timing or cdi box which causes this..i guess....and then i would have to figure out how to test the cdi unit before ordering it..

what do you think?

I just found out 3b-6 its called ''pulse line''

T

 

[timmybuddhadude]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

pulse line which goes from pump to intake manifold

https://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110513220541AAdsxk4

a johnson from there has same system
s0 why the flames ? thats the root of the problem

 

[carholme]

Re: mercury 2cylinder 40hp 1997 starts but wont run...need help !!

The fuel pump works on a pulse system from the crankcase through that line which is not connected at the moment. The barb that the hose connects to is seen in this link from the parts list as item 10:

Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. - CYLINDER BLOCK - 30/40 H.P.

Because we can't see the hole clearly, it is hard to tell if the barb fitting is broken off in the hole or not. However, you will need a new barb fitting in that hole so you can reconnect the hose to it.

In normal operation the travel of the piston up and down in the cylinder creates pulses which activates the fuel pump causing fuel to flow to the carburetor. When you get the hose re-connected, you can disconnect it from the barb fitting, insert it into a can and while cranking the engine you will see fuel come out of that hose in pulses. I am sure this will get your engine running and if you have tended to the cooling system inspection, you might be getting close to having a good engine again.

Here is the internals of the fuel pump and you will see the diaphragm and check valves under item 2 as a 857005A1 DIAPHRAGM KIT. If you click on the picture at item 2 it will blow it up for you to see the parts.

Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. - FUEL PUMP (MANUAL) - 30/40 H.P.

The reason you are seeing flame rather than spark is you are looking right into the inside of the cylinder where the power is generated.

Gerry