How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Stevum

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Hello to all, I just purchased a 1955 Lone Star 21' Cabin Cruiser that has been beautifully restored on the outside (paint) but the 1958 Mark 78 Super Marathon (Serial # 1173000) hasn't been run since 1987! The boat & motor had been stored in a shop this entire time & show no signs of corrosion. I pulled all 6 plugs & there is no corrosion on any kind on the spark plugs. I put the motor in the trailering position (prop up) & added a fairly generous amount of oil to each cylinder, let it set for 30 minutes & the motor will rotate easily with the pull start rope. I know that I'm going to have to take the carbs off as I don't think they could have sat for 26 years without the gas turning to caramel but any useful tips anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated. Also, I imagine that these carbs will have to be synched after reassembly to get them to run right? I really think this motor has some life left in it & hate to see it on a bone pile.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 

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emckelvy

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Yes, Indeed, go thru the carbs. You can get inexpensive "carb packing" kits which will have the gaskets you need for a simple disassemble/reassemble. Recommend replacing the carb floats with newer-style ethanol-resistant-type. Otherwise it's likely the old plastic/foam floats will swell from alcohol exposure.

Fuel pump diaphragms will likely be dried-up and useless.

Impeller will definitely have to be replaced. Also pull the lower unit's oil drain plug and see what comes out. If it's black or brown, you're good, just change the gear oil (use Hi-Vis marine oil). If milky-looking, the driveshaft seal is a likely suspect. Not so easy to service on these, as you need special tools to remove the water pump cover and the cartridge (for seal replacement).

This site has parts diagrams and still shows some parts as available, but other parts are getting harder to find:

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selectDocs.asp?doc_nbr=32912

This site has either old-stock or reproduction impellers and other parts, along with some tune-up information:

Old Mercury Outboard Timing, Adjusting, and Testing 1966 & Earlier -- Mastertech Marine Outboard Motor Parts

Outboard Motor Wiring Diagrams from Mastertech Marine!

Mastertech Marine: IGNITION & CARB PARTS FOR MERCURY "MARK" & "A" MOTORS

Anyway, poke around that site and there's a wealth of info available.

Likely the points will be "hazed-over" inside the distributor, at minimum you'd want to pull the distributor body (held onto the distributor drive assy by four 1/4-20 bolts), open 'er up and clean/degrease the points. You can do this without disturbing the points' gaps. If you do have to replace the points or remove them in order to clean 'em up, you have to re-synchronize the 2 sets of points, since the first set must have 90 degrees of dwell, and the 2nd set must open exactly 60 degrees after the first set opens (fires). Otherwise, cylinders 1-3-5 and 2-4-6 will be firing a bit off, which has been known in the past to break crankshafts!

I did the "quick-and-dirty" points cleaning trick to a '64 100 hp a few years back, the guy ran the heck out of it for the entire summer and it didn't miss a lick! If you do need to synch the points, there are downloads to print a degree-wheel to lay on the distributor. Then all you need is a test light and a piece of stiff wire to serve as a pointer!

Be careful when pulling the distributor. The side coil wire fitting (held on by 2 screws) must be removed before pulling the dist cap. The bottom coil wire pulls straight out of the coil and unscrews from the distributor. All the spark plug wires screw in as well.

The rotor is supposed to have a drop of Loctite holding it to the rotor shaft, and is quite fragile. There's a special rotor removal tool and you probably don't have that! Grab the mid-section of the rotor and pull smartly, hopefully it'll come loose. After that, 4 screws remove the phenolic cover and you'll see the "guts".

Clean points & put a couple of drops of oil on each points cam wick, if they're still there. If they have deteriorated to "gum", you'll need new ones.

Clean the inside of the dist. cap (carb spray works well to flush any crud/junk in there) and check that the carbon center contact is "springy" and not all gunked-up. Be careful with the dist cap mounting screws, as you can easily bust the cap if you don't put the correct-length screws back where they came from (or position the cap properly before cinching down on the screws). A good idea to take pictures with the digital camera before disassembly!

The distributor is "keyed" such that it can only go one way back into the drive assembly, just line up the flat spot on the rotor shaft to the dist. drive.

Here's one thought, before opening up the dist and doing a bunch of work, you could check to see if the points are still conducting. Disconnect the 2 points wires coming out of the distributor, the connection point should be at a terminal block. Be sure to note which wire goes where. With these wires disconnected, and your meter on Rx1 or the lowest scale you have, take one meter lead to a points wire, and connect the other to the distributor's metal body. Pull the motor over slowly with the recoil starter (helps if the plugs are out!), and you should alternately get Zero (0) ohms (continuity) when the points are closed, then a very large value of resistance when the points open and the meter is just reading across the condenser. Check the other wire the same way, and if you get good readings, it'll probably spark.

Of course you could just crank the motor over and see if it sparks! But I would put the lower unit in water (trash can, etc) before spinning the motor over.

Heck, you might even try putting gas to 'er and see what happens, if you find you have spark. You can tell if the carbs are badly gunked by removing the main jet plug in the bottom front of each carb. If there is nasty, green gunk or other trash on the inside of the jet plugs, the carbs will have to come apart. If it the jet plugs look clean, it would be safe enough to give 'er a try. You could even flush a little fresh gas thru the carbs with the main jet plugs removed, to see if anything bad-looking comes out. If it comes out clean, I'd give it a shot.

The impeller likely won't pump after all these years, and will have taken a set, so don't start it in Reverse.

She'll take a mix of 50:1 TCW-3 oil and regular unleaded. The proper plugs for this motor are Champion J6C.

Well, that's long-winded enough, Hope it Helps and let us know when you bring 'er back to life.......ed
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

WOW
Ed,
Thanks for all the great information, If your typing skills are as bad as mine that would have taken all night to post advice. I will get started 1st thing this morning & see what I can find out. Once again, thanks for the advice!
Steve
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Ed,
I had to replace the tank fuel line & fittings as they were all rotten, mixed up a fresh batch of gas, pumped up the bulb & hooked up a battery with the motor in a barrel & this motor runs! I have a few other questions though, how can you tell if this motor is getting water to the cooling heads as it's almost impossible to keep water in the barrel with the thing running? I've seen other posts were someone said you could remove a certain bolt on some models & create a tell-tale with a elbow fitting & some tubing. Where do you break this thing open to check if the impeller is shot as it's direct drive & all the other motors I've changed impellers on had a brass clamp that connected the upper & lower shifting rods together? The lower leg has a slotted screw labeled flush but I can't seem to find a upper hole for the gear lube level as in later model outboards. Also, I can only get this motor to run in reverse, even when the shown gear selector is in the forward position. Do you happen to know what the Dyna-Flow feature is on the lower leg? I opened one side of the covers & there doesn't appear to be anything but a rubber cushion? I have enclosed some pix of the motor & gear selector / starting switch. Thanks for all the previous advice & links to more info!
Steve
 

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merc850

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

The Dyna float is the motor to swivel bracket mounting made of rubber. One thing I'd do is replace the timing belt that comes out from under the flywheel - to do this remove the distributor belt cover first then slide the belt up off the pulley use a puller to remove the flywheel and then undo the screws that hold the alternator stator to the bearing cap. Replace with new belt available from Mercury.
To drop the LU just undo the bolts at the front, sides and underside and pull slowly. There is a tell tale hole on the port side under the lower cowl where it joins the driveshaft housing sometimes they get plugged up and need clearing with a piece of wire or thin metal rod.
mark-78.jpgUse this diagram to troubleshoot your electrical system.
 
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emckelvy

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Glad you got it running! One thing you might do, until she's all tuned & ready to go, is pull the prop. Then you can run it in a barrel without splashing all over the place. Not having a Neutral certainly is inconvenient, eh? ;)

You can easily tell if you've got cooling by feeling the exhaust manifold. It's the large rectangular, flat plate on the Port side of the motor. If it's cool or lukewarm, you've got water flowing thru the powerhead.

It'll get hot very very fast if not, since the exhaust dumps directly on it.

Water should also spit out of the exhaust relief port at the rear, below the lower cowling. But you have to have the motor leg immersed pretty deep to develop some exhaust backpressure, before it'll spit good out of there. The most positive way to tell is by feeling the exhaust manifold cover.

As the O.P. said, lower unit just unbolts, but you'll need a pin spanner wrench or the Merc special tool to undo the water pump cover.

At least it's starting in Reverse! It could be something as simple as an adjustment of the microswitch inside the control box. The reverse and forward interlock microswitches prevent the starter from cranking if the throttle lever is too far in either forward or reverse directions. Otherwise you could have full throttle in reverse or forward and crank it over, since it's Start-In-Gear only the results would be catastrophic!

You'll note there are 2 starter solenoids, one to spin the bi-directional starter in reverse, the other to start the normal (Fwd) way. So a bad solenoid, switch, or wiring connection could cause problems. Use that electrical diagram to go thru the wiring with a meter. Check for power to the Fwd solenoid when the start button is pushed.

Yeah, that timing belt looks like it's seen better days. Something I'd replace before taking 'er out.

Now the fun part begins, gettin' 'er ready to go out on the water! Keep us updated.......ed
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Thanks for all the help so far, I was able to pull the prop cone off & pull the propeller so I can run it in a tank without ejecting all the water. While I was at it I dropped the lower unit to inspect the water impeller. You wouldn't believe how great the impeller looked, no broken fins or loose pieces inside, spun freely when turning the driveshaft. I flushed the housing out & did get a small amount of old junk & some mineral deposits. I lubed up the impeller with some dish detergent & put everything back together. I still can't tell if the water is circulating properly as it will still only start in reverse & it might not cool as effectively this way. I've only run it for 20- 30 seconds at a time but man it wants to rock & roll...I've also kept the RPM's down as I'm sure you could over - rev it with the prop being off. What's a good way to check if the starter will run in the forward gear? I've cleaned all the electrical contacts to the solenoids & starter but as I mentioned in a previous post my electrical skills are pretty poor. Thanks in advance for any further advice! Steve
 

emckelvy

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Hi, Steve, amazing that the impeller is still flexible after sitting all those years! Maybe it was replaced shortly before the boat was laid-up.

Take a look at the electrical diagram previously posted; you'll note that the solenoid for Forward starting is on the bottom, and Reverse starting on the top.

Each solenoid has (2) sets of small terminals. One terminal on each solenoid is jumpered to the other, and you'll see a red wire going to the (+) side of #2 coil, and jumpered over to the (+) side of #1 coil.

What those wires do is supply full battery voltage to the coils only when the starter is cranking. When the ign key is released to the "Run" position, ign power goes thru the ballast resistors. Later models deleted this "boost" feature, I imagine they figured out it wasn't needed, and was probably frying the points!

You'll also note the other terminal on each solenoid; with a yellow wire on the bottom (Fwd) solenoid, and a red wire on the top (Reverse) solenoid.

If you apply +12V directly from the battery terminal (or from the "Hot" side of the solenoid), it should energize the solenoid and turn the starter motor in the appropriate direction.

Since you already know that Reverse works, no need to mess with it. Use a jumper wire on the Fwd solenoid, and apply +12V to the yellow wire. The solenoid should click. If it doesn't click, it's bad.

Troubleshoot outwards from there; if the solenoid clicks and the starter doesn't run, check for power on the large starter cable. If you do have power, there's a problem with the starter. If you don't have power at the starter and the solenoid clicks, the contacts inside are bad.

If you're very careful you can "jump" the whole thing, right to the Fwd terminal on the starter. Use extreme caution with sparks around the carbs or at the battery. Be sure to have a fire extinguisher at the ready.

At any rate, common issues are bad solenoids, bad starter, or a problem with the wiring/microswitch/adjustment.

If you can get the solenoid to work by jumpering, and the starter runs, then it's down to checking for power at the yellow wire on the Fwd solenoid, then tracing it back to the control box.

If you take a look at the control box wiring, you'll see the yellow wire "B" coming off the Fwd microswitch. When the control lever is moved to the "Start" position for going Forward, you'll get voltage on the yellow wire, to the solenoid. If the Fwd microswitch is bad, or out of adjustment, you'll never get power back to the Fwd solenoid.

Note that to start in Forward you have to move the control lever to the Fwd-Start position, or the microswitch will be open, and no power is sent to the solenoid.

Hope that helps, keep us posted!.........ed
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Got home from work tonight & hooked up the jumper wire from the battery to the forward starter solenoid & it will turn over in the forward setting. However there were 3 extremely violent backfires while trying to start it & I mean extreme! It blew water out of the barrel about 12ft high in the air & very loud. I didn't want to damage anything so I quite for the evening to let the starter battery charge up on the charger. I would only run the starter for about 10 seconds on each try. If it starts & runs fine in reverse the timing should be OK in forward shouldn't it?
I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks!
 

79Glastron

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Did you put the control handle in forward when trying to start it? The timing has to change a good bit for it to run in forward direction. If you simply just by passed the solenoid it would not run.
 

turtles11756

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

get a 1965' and prior MERCURY outboard service manual. that motor is well worth the cost for the manual
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Thanks for the tip on the control handle position.....That should have been painfully obvious to me but I was pretty excited to just have the starter running the right way. If it would quit raining here I'd be able to get out & work on it more frequently. Thanks for all the advice & I'll keep you posted on my progress. Also, do you think I might have done any damage by trying to start it with the forward solenoid while it was in the reverse position? Those backfires were almost explosive! Steve
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

0814192717.jpg0814192637.jpg0814192622.jpgOK, Big news.....I think that I have discovered that this motor has a counterclockwise prop. I thought something looked a little odd about it...but I thought it was because it had such a shallow pitch. I have included some pix to see if you guys agree. With the shift control handle in the forward position the flywheel turns clockwise while running & in the reverse position in turns counterclockwise. With that being said I still haven't had time to tear into the controls to see if I have a bad connection in the micro-switch. But now that I know what position to have the throttle lever in I can say that it runs & cools very good in both directions.....Especially what I think is Forward. Thanks for the advice & I'm not out off the woods yet! Thanks, Steve
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Sorry, something I forgot to mention in my last post was this prop after being sanded appears to be of Bronze or a Bronze Alloy?
 

79Glastron

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Yeah, its a bronze prop. Sorta like a "stainless steel" prop of today bronze was then. I doubt any damage was done with it miss firing like that. I believe all the direct reversing motors used a left hand prop. This is also true of the automatic transmission motors also.
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

get a 1965' and prior MERCURY outboard service manual. that motor is well worth the cost for the manual

Turtles,
Do you know of a pretty good source to find a manual? Everything I've found wasn't old enough & I really don't trust the so called "free download" websites.
Thanks for your time! Steve
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

OK,
Looks like we might be hitting the water over Labor Day Weekend, The motor is chomping at the bit to get out & swim. Spent a large part of today rigging the steering system....it's got an old cable & pulley system that runs down the port side of the boat (both cables) & it took different parts of this forum & high school calculus to get this thing to steer right. All is better & I hope to publish a you tube video of this boat under way. Still haven't been able to find a pre- 65 manual. Later, Guys & Gals
 

79Glastron

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Manual, not cheap. SERVICE MANUAL

Its a factory reprint, right from the source, not aftermarket.
 

Stevum

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Re: How to Revive a 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon?

Hey Guys,
We made it out on the water Saturday & stayed overnight on the boat until Sunday afternoon. The boat ran well all day Saturday but it started to overheat on Sunday so we shut her down hopefully before any damage was done. I've watched a few videos on Youtube & apparently if the impeller fins are in decent shape & not broken it still might need to be replaced because the fins have taken a set? Anyhow I was wondering if anyone had a good source for an impeller or full impeller kit for this 1958 Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon? We got a lot of positive comments & questions about the boat & it's history. I have enclosed a link to a real short clip of the boat underway. Thanks for any help you might have!

1955 Lone Star "Cruise Master" powered by 1958 Kiekhaefer Merc Mark 78 Super Marathon - YouTube
 
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