1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start(running now)

[zebraman1978]

I tried like heck to find a thread i read about an old merc that was only sparkin 3 out of 6 cylinders but couldn't so i'm starting a new one. also got a suggestion from a faithful iboat member(emckelvy) after reopening a 5 year old can of worms.

emckelvy gave me starting 101 for an old merc but i have a new problem. after trying and trying and trying to start the old 6, decided to check for spark.

the guy started her up with no trouble when i picked it up.. turn the key once, turn the key twice and it was roarin and he left it run in his barrel of water while we talked. i have no idea what happened in transit.

anyway, i didn't try to start it for about 2 weeks later and was very disappointed. so last night with my own barrel of water i took the plug wires off one at a time and had my 8 yr old turn it over(while i held the wire) YIKES!!...spark on that one. with no other way to test i did this with the rest. 1, 2 and 4 are the only ones that shocked me. now, how could that happen between his house and mine?

i started taking apart the distributor, lightly sanded the contacts in the cap to a little shine. light scuff on the tips of the rotor, didn't go any farther and put it back together. still no start. plug wires all look to be in good shape.

i could sure use some expert guidance before tearing anything else apart.

thanks so much

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Working on something that old is like beating yourself on the head with a hammer....it feels SO good when it stops.

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

thanks for your 2 cents 'nutcase.

ive read some positive comments here about these motors so im not giving up yet.

thanks for reading my post.

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

...just an update while all you experts think about it. i read a thread about a '62 700 merc with no spark and it turned out to be the wiring in the control box. i took mine apart and it looked just as bad as his and the sheathing crumbled as i moved the wires so i am in the process of rewiring it. now i have no spark so i hope all is well when it's back together.

my dad and i looked at it last night together and he thought he knew where the points were but our attempt to find them/it was unsuccessful. can someone give me a hint so i can check it for cleaning/sanding? dad seemed to think if 3 cylinders had spark the points were working...? i have no idea.

 

[emckelvy]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

If I recall, you had the dist. cap off. Inside of there you would have seen the black 2-stage rotor. The rotor pulls off the dist. shaft (very very carefully or you'll break it!).

Then, you remove the screws which hold the phenolic cover to the dist. body. Under there you'll find (2) sets of points/condensers.

One set of points runs cylinders 1-3-5. The other one fires cyls 2-4-6. So you could have one set not working and have spark on three cyls.

The distributor body is held onto the dist. drive with (4) bolts then it drops right down. If you remove the throttle stop/idle stop/spark advance stop bracket at the front of the distributor (held on with 2 bolts) you'll find it a lot easier to get at the bolts.

Once you have the distributor out and turned over in your hand, carefully remove the phenolic cover (careful 'cause it'll likely be very brittle). Keep track of where all the screws go, there may be different lengths.

Of course before this you will have removed the coil wire going into the side of the dist cap, and the dist. cap screws. Since you've had that off before I reckon you've figured that part out!

With dist. in hand, cover removed, you can see the (2) sets of points & condensers.

But, before you take everything apart, there is a way to check to see if the points are causing problems.

Disconnect the brown and white wires coming out of the distributor, at the terminal block on the Port side of the motor.

Using a meter, one lead to ground, and the other lead to either wire, slowly pull the engine over with the recoil starter. You should see continuity on the meter (zero ohms) as the points close and infinite (open circuit) when the points open. If you get no meter deflection (infinite), that set of points is 'hazed over' or dirty and must be cleaned. Repeat for the other points wire.

Note you can use a 12V test lite instead of a meter, but the meter is more accurate and will detect a marginal connection better than the lite.

There are a couple of ways to service the points, the "quick & dirty" way would be to get some coarse 'wet & dry' sandpaper, and sand the contacts in place without removing them. This may work well enough to get it sparking again, the best way is to remove the points, clean to bare metal and degrease.

However, if you disturb the points' adjustments by removing them, you must set up the dwell angle for both sets after reinstalling. This is a bit of an involved procedure and if you're just concerned with getting 'er running enough to evaluate condition, might be a bit more work than you wanna do right now.

If you sand the points (or use a points file), you have to be sure to get any abrasive out of there (flush with carb spray, etc) and then put a dab of heavy grease on the points cam. There's an oil-impregnated 'wick' to lube the cam but likely it'll be all dried out.

You may be able to find tune-up parts for your 700 at www.oldmercs.com but they won't be cheap.

If you decide bite the bullet and do a full servicing on the points, let us know and we can outline the procedure for adjusting dwell. Very Very important on these, if the adjustment is out-of-whack it'll make for uneven idling/operation and in extreme cases has been known to break the crankshaft! Not a good way to end the boating day!

Anyway, give the points a continuity check then tear into the dist. based on what you find. They're not that bad to work on once you get used to it.

Of course it goes without saying that having a good manual in front of you will be of great help in gettin' er done.

HTH............ed

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

well i finally got some time to do some more testing and still have not been able to start the darn old merc. i did the meter test on the brown and white wires coming out of the distributor and slowly turned the gear on top by hand since the part the rope it on isn't tied to the motor. not sure how to fix that....

anyway, i got continuity and then infinite, continuity and then infinite as i(my neighbor actually) turned over the motor. i think that's what should happen based on your description. each time the points connect to send spark to a cylinder i should get continuity.

after feeling success on that test to eliminate the points i moved on to the next possibility, the control box. i read in another thread about a 62 merc where the wires were shot and bypassing the ignition switch allowed the motor to start. mine were real bad but seemed connected. i de-soldered the white, pink/salmon and red and twisted them together. the motor began turning over but never started. with the control box apart i couldnt use the throttle lever so i disconnected the cable and adjusted it by hand to a few different positions, full choke and lots of fuel(hard bulb and a couple more for good measure) but still no go....pulling my hair out.

it started and idled just fine when i picked it up so it has to be something simple.

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Success! Dad came over and we started from the beginning.... got fuel? yes. mixed right? yes. got spark? didnt think so but we checked and we did on all cylinders. have you tried starter fluid? no. i think ill go get some, dad says. so i get the motor back together, back down in the water barrel and 10 minutes later dad is back and says start crankin'.........a little spray and it fired. after that it started each time without the starter fluid.

i have to resolder the ignition switch and figure out how to get the control box back together but i cant stop smiling, im so excited.

not sure why the fuel wasn't catching but its running now. maybe be the carbs need cleaning?

special thanks to emckelvy

 

[Mi duckdown]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Glad it's running but stay away from using starting fluid in the future. that stuff is deadly to outboards. NO lubrication to cylinders.

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start

even though it's just for a second or 2? i would think that with the 2 cycle fuel flowing at the same time it wouldnt be that big of a deal. but then again i have only the experience on this trek about outboards.

thanks for the heads up. i didn't even consider that possibility when we tried it.

i truly appreciate the experts taking time to help us noobies

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start(running now)

finally trying to get all things back together. the only problem i have left is the control box. i've had it together 4 different times and none of them worked. does anyone know the what position the throttle lever and shifter lever need to be in to get it back together and functional?

one more thing...when it's running it smokes a bit when cold but not so much when warm. there is blue smoke(exhaust) coming from the area where it mounts on the transom, is this normal? could there be an exhaust leak around there?

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start(running now)

bump

 

[zebraman1978]

Re: 1961 Mercury 700 FGS Won't Start(running now)

finally got the control box back together yesterday..lots of excitement..then a huge disappointment. i got plenty of juice but the starter doesn't engage. what i think is the starter solenoid just clicks and nothing happens. the motor turns over by hand but something is missing between the wheel the rope turns and the motor so i can't try starting it with the rope.

any test to verify it's the solenoid and not the starter? i can spin the gear by hand on top of the starter and it raises up to engage the motor.