5.7 icm? no spark

[mike96chap]

Hi all. My name is Mike and I'm having some issues with my motor. The rig is a 1996 chaperral 2135ss. It has a 5.7 with a thunderbolt v ignition. I picked the boat up with no spark. Today I ran all the proper tests And ended up with the following. Replaced the pick up sensor in the distributer As well as the coil. Checked for 12v at coil + and have 12v. Checked for 12v at red white wire And have 12v. Grounded coil lead and tapped white/green wire to ground and no sparks. This leads to the ignition Module. My question is. Is there any other ways to verify the module is bad other then these tests? The only thing I haven't checked is the key switch. The guy I got It from replaced it prior to me purchasing it. Second question is. If the module is bad. Being I can't find any used ones anywhere and the dealer wants 620 for the new part is it better to just go with the gm Delco voyager set up and redo the entire ignition. I'd really like to get this thing running. I purchased it for 2800 in mint condition other then the spark issue. Thank you in advance for all the help.

 

[wrench 3]

It sounds like you were following the trouble shooting chart, so did you disconnect the gray tack lead from the coil? Also is the coil lead OK. 3,000 ohms per 6" or less. And did you strike the white/green wire to ground in very rapid concession.
A bad coil can take the module out. If the coil was shorting, it mite have destroyed the first module.

 

[achris]

.... Grounded coil lead and tapped white/green wire to ground and no sparks. ....

Please define this ^^^... You should not ground the coil lead, just put a spark plug in it and connect the body of the plug to ground. Speaking of ground, check them all, including the ground of the dissy body.

Make sure, when you're doing these tests, that the tacho feed wire (gray) and the wire to the shift interrupt switch (white/green) are disconnected. If you have a knock sensor, make sure that's unplugged too.

One last test (not mentioned in the test procedure).... Put a multimeter on the white/green. Disconnect it from the module and turn the engine slowly. You should see the output swing between 0 volts and 5 volts. Now put the white/green back on the module. Turn the engine slowly again, you should see the same result. If you see the 0 to 5 swing, the sensor is working properly.

A few things about the Delco system. It is NOT a straight drop in system. Quite a bit of wiring needs to be modified. Second, it's a basic system, no knock sensors, no advanced timing adjustments based on revs and load.... You will lose a lot of benefits inherent in the TB-V system.

I'm sure you should be able to find a module (if it is that) a lot less than 620 (I've already found some at $100 cheaper).... If you run your engine serial number by us, I'll look see what module you have...

Chris........

 

[mike96chap]

Hi all. And thanks again for the help. I have followed the trouble shooting guide. I also did strike the white green wire very rapidly And still no spark. I am getting 12v to the +coil. Have not checked the ohms as I'm not too sure how to. I did disconnect the Grey wires from the -side. There was to so I tried it wit removing them one at a time And switching between them. I haven't tried the volt swing yet and there is no knock sensor. after reading a ton of threads I'm aware that it is not completely drop in. I'm not to concerned about wiring it as long as it has a diagram. I'd be more concerned about timing it. How can I achieve the engine model number as its not on the transom plate and there is no sticker on the motor itself

 

[mike96chap]

Well.... I have went over everything again. .... I have a few loose ground wires that I have no idea where they go. One was connected to the bracket with the module. The other ran through the electical tape and was wire tied backwards towards the distributor. So I grounded it to the distributor cap. Went through the wiring for the key switch. And all is well there. still no spark. Looks like the previous owner had a lot of the motor and wiring apart. I went ahead and ordered the Delco kit from Michigan motorz, got free 2 day shipping and should be here Saturday. I know know what my Sunday is going to consist of lol. If any other ideas come by please respond and I'll give it a wacky before I install the new kit.

 

[Fun Times]

How can I achieve the engine model number as its not on the transom plate and there is no sticker on the motor itself

Look for a metal tag riveted to the engine block just above the engine starter on the starboard side of the boat.

 

[achris]

.... there is no knock sensor. ...

That makes the engine a 5.7L (as opposed to a 5.7LX or 5.7TBI)... and so the module is a 807264T3, which supersedes to 807264A01.

Here's one for about the same as your delco kit... http://rexmarine.co/807264T-3-ICM-MODULE-Mercury-Marine.html

 

[mike96chap]

It is a 807264t3. I have the part out of the boat and matches the same on the module. I figured if I'm going to spend the money I may as well opt for a bunch of new parts and get rid of the problem all together. I could probably use fresh wires and a new cap and rotor anyways. Kill everything with one stone. And a few hundred bucks

 

[achris]

Just be aware the performance of the Delco system is nowhere near as good as the Merc system.... Particularly the TB-V....

 

[mike96chap]

By performance what exactly do you mean? I read the advance curve is preset to 20-22* and it is base timed at 8* which would leave you around 28 to 30* at full advance around 3k rpm? This is also pretty close to the same as the tb v Would be timed no?

 

[achris]

No, I'm referring to how the TB-V system works. The way it can advance and retard the timing (other than the 'standard' curve) based on engine load and revs. The Delco system is close to the TB-IV, but not even remotely close to as powerful as TB-V.

 

[mike96chap]

By performance what exactly do you mean? I read the advance curve is preset to 20-22* and it is base timed at 8* which would leave you around 28 to 30* at full advance around 3k rpm? This is also pretty close to the same as the tb v Would be timed no?

 

[achris]

Yes, on the Delco the advance curve is set, and fixed... On TB-IV it's pretty much the same, but TB-V adjusts the curve on the fly. Improving fuel economy and engine power.

Typical TB-IV curve.... (very similar to the Delco)



TB-V graph... Note that the timing will be changed according to load and engine speed, not just by the predefined internal 'curve'... In particular the MBT. Mean Best Timing. That advances the timing at cruising speeds to improve engine power, fuel economy and smoothness... TB-V will also adjust at idle to maintain the correct idle speed, so as you drop it into gear, TB-V will advance the timing almost instantly to reduce the likelihood of the engine stalling... It will also advance the timing during acceleration, again to improve engine power. The Delco system doesn't have any of these functions.

 

[mike96chap]

Ahhhh. OK I see now. I installed the system yesterday and I'm going to time it today and go over and clean up all the wiring. Although the tbv is a better system I'm happy that I got rid of the problem all together. Reliability always wins in my book. Hopefully if all goes well Sunday I'll be on the maiden voyage.

 

[mike96chap]

Also I picked this boat up in immaculate condition. Other then the spark issue for a wopping 2800 bucks on a ez loader trailer. I'll keep everyone updated on the outcome after she's all timed up

 

[mike96chap]

Wellll.. got her fired up again. The timing marks are on the opposite side of the indicator. So I started to turn the Distributor and the motor cut out. I assumed this is normal because if the timing is off it's not going to fire correctl. So I flipped the starter 180 degrees and when I went to crank it again the starter was grinding. So here's a question. Is this the same starter as and automotive starter. Or is it marine specific. I've searched on Google and they all seen the same for the 350 5.7

 

[achris]

If the timing marks are on the opposite side, you've picked up the wrong spark plug lead for the timing light. And no, starters are marine specific.

 

[mike96chap]

Hmm maybe I clipped cylinder 3 instead of number 1. I'll be picking up a new starter tomorrow and installing it. Then double check the timing again. It's also a dial back timing light. Not sure if it makes a difference. I set it to 8 and it was still on the wrong side.

 

[achris]

What's a 'dial back' timing light?

#3 is 270 degrees out.. So yes, you might have hooked that one.

 

[wrench 3]

If the timing marks are on the opposite side, you've picked up the wrong spark plug lead for the timing light.

I'm thinking that he mite have just turned the distributor the wrong way to correct the timing and retarded the timing enough to stall it.
If the mark is to the starboard side of the scale you need to turn the distributor counter clockwise.