Restoring 2x Mercruiser 470s

eNaK

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Apr 26, 2015
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Hi guys

Well the father inlaw and I have bought a project boat. It's a 32ft Randell and has twin Mercruiser 470s.

The boat had sunk due to the previous owner not maintaining the boat but it sunk to just below the flybridge. So the motors were full of water when we got the boat. And it had been sitting for about 3 month before we got it. So first thing we did was drain the water out the. Full it with oil. We were able to turn the motors over by hand which is a good thing.

We are taking the motors out this week and going to pull them apart and see what they look like then see what we have to do to get them up and running again.
We have never worked on these motors so wondering what people think the motors will be like, and what's the best way to attack this.

How much does it cost to rebuild these motors? Just s rough estimate. We live in Perth, Western Australia.

Regards

Kane
 

Bondo

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Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,...
The 470s are Mercruiser's redheaded bastard step-child, they've been tryin' to forget since the day they were introduced,.....

Gut the transom, widen the driveline spread, 'n stuff in a pair of 4.3l's,....
 

mr 88

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To have them rebuilt at a machine shop will probably run you 1500 and up,depending on what you replace. It has to be checked out first. Are the cylinders egged out or are they good? New pistons or rings only ,condition of crank etc all has a bearing on your price. Do it your self and it may cost you 600 per engine.I just had one rebuilt so unlike others on here I believe this is a good engine if maintained,just like any other engine would be.
 

eNaK

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Haha Bondo well if we were keeping the boat we would put some disels in but we will be fixing it up, using it for a bit then selling it.

Thanks Mr 88 for the feed back. Once we get them out and opened up I will post more info. Yeah we are looking at doing the motors our selfs. Are they pretty easy to get parts for etc?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Hi eNaK, and :welcome:

As for getting those engines rebuilt. Good luck! I'm also in Perth, and I know what it's like trying to get work done here. The best thing you can do is have any machine work done by a machine shop, and when you need parts, ship them in from USA... Steer well clear of anything labelled 'boat shop'.

You are going to have to do ALL the assembly yourself. Any shop capable of working on those engines will be asking in the order of $150-$200 per hour, and they will not be offering any warranty.

With the boat having been underwater and then left for that long, your gimbal bearing, unis, bellows, throttle and shift cables, all the controls, wiring harnesses and anything else electrical( Starter motors, distributors, trim pumps, alternators), will all be shot, as will the entire fuel system. And it was salt water too...

The other problem you'll be up against is that the second most potential buyers hear '470', they run.... And as the last was built 26 years ago, parts here, when available are exorbitantly priced. And as they get older and older, the number of decent mechanics capable of working on them get fewer and fewer... And those willing to work on them is but a handful.

Mr 88. Unfortunately your price estimate is for them to be done in the US, in Aust we get stung something shocking, what you pay 1500 for we'll be looking at anything up to 8000.

Cheers,

Chris........
eNaK, PM me....
 
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stonyloam

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They are based on a 460 Ford V8, and some Parts are interchangeable (heads, rockers and pushrods). Nothing really special, except that you will want to sleeve the end of the camshaft for the waterpump seals. You can use aftermarket gaskets EXCEPT for the HEAD GASKET, for that you should use the OEM Mercruiser.
 

mr 88

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As Stony stated the head ,pistons etc are from a 460 so parts are easy to come by,except the camshaft. Don't be afraid of Ebay for keeping your cost down.I reused parts that were in spec. including rocker arms,push rods and the crankshaft.. Doing the work yourself you may end up spending 600 per engine[ as I mentioned before] with the pistons probably costing the most. If the engines had some time on them the odds are you will have to go .060 over on the cylinders.ACHRIS mentioned a few things besides the engines being problem areas. I would also add ,what condition can the transom,stringers and anything else wood in the hull be in after sitting 3 months underwater??
 
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eNaK

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Hi guys thanks heaps for the replies
Sorry the boat wasn't under water for that long. It was raised pretty much straight away. It just sat on a hard stand for 3 months with nothing being done too it. So was just the motors that were full of water for that long.

Thanks achris for the heads up for getting stuff done here in Perth.
So Stonyloam I could order a rebuild kit for a for a 460 ford and that would pretty much get me a lot of the stuff I need to fix the two engines up?
The motors are coming out on Saturday so we get to take a nice close look at what they are like. I'm pretty sure I will have plenty of questions to come. But that's good to know that we an use the 460 parts. Are they cheaper to buy?
Cheers Mr 88 I have already been looking a lot on eBay. I just want to make sure I get the right parts that we need.

Regards

Kane
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Gut the transom, widen the driveline spread, 'n stuff in a pair of 4.3l's,....

This would be far less costly and put you farther ahead than dealing with the 470's. Its really hard to polish a turd, and at the end of the day, you still only have a shiney turd.

with the motors full of water for 3 months, you will find all sorts of issues inside once you pull them apart.

However if you intend to rebuild them, be meticulous in calculating what it will cost you before you start. just replacing the electrics on the 470 will set you back quite a bit.
 

eNaK

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Cheers Scott

i would love to put the 4.3s in but firstly we would have to purchase 2x 4.3s then really you arent sure what sort of condition they are in so would have to spend money on them anyway wouldnt you to make sure they are good?
Are the 470s really that bad? and why are they so bad? i have seen there is a guy selling 2x 4.3s for about $1000 but they are bare motors. and not sure what condition they are in. Not sure what it would cost to fit it out. Then you would also have to adjust the mounts for them as well im guessing yeah?

regards

kane
 

mr 88

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The only electronics you will be replacing is the stator and points Remove the magnets from the stator,then start looking for a marine alternator,Ebay.Petronix makes a conversion kit for the points and that will set you back a 100.00.Again anyone that monitors there engine on a regular basis will not have any issues with this engine.NOT sure why some people talk turd unless there clueless, those comments are uncalled for.People have issues because of there own lack of knowledge on engines and how to maintain them,like reading the manual that tells you to change the impeller on a regular basis.Looking through the different engine forums I see every make and model has issues over time,so I guess there all "turds"as well.
 
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Bondo

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NOT sure why some people talk turd unless there clueless, those comments are uncalled for.People had issues because of there own lack of knowledge on engines

Ayuh,.... Guilty as charged,..... :rolleyes:

The 470s are an aluminum block, open deck design, with a cast iron head, that the Oem no longer supports,....
They were only built for a few short years, 'n abandoned by the Oem,....

I ain't much of a gambler, but I know better than to bet against ridiculous odds like that,....

The SBC, 'n 4.3ls have been built by the Millions,
n are still supported by the Oem, 'n a massive aftermarket,...

Unfortunately, Kane jumped into a boat flip, without proper research,....
As noted above, even if these flooded motors ran, yer still tryin' to sell a turd powered boat, that anybody that Knows the 470, won't touch with a 100' pole,...
Then you would also have to adjust the mounts for them as well im guessing yeah?

Not only do ya need to build forward motor mounts, I believe I mentioned above, that ya might also have to widen the drives,....
Ya can't fit 2 V-motors where 2 In-lines were already a tight fit,.....
 

eNaK

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At the end of the day we aren't keeping this boat. It's just a fix up keep for a little and sell. But we want to do a good job.

Bondo yeah widening the drives isn't a problem. There is a tone of room there. I wasn't worried about that. Was just asking the question about the mounts to get a better idea of what has to be done

If we were keeping this boat I would be more worried. We got this boat for a very good price. So we want to get it running for the least amount of money we can but still have the motors done right.

Having said that I really appreciate the information. If these motors turn out to be in very very bad condition then we will look at other options. But for now we are going to go the road of rebuilding these and want to do it the right way. so just looking for info to do these right and what the best way to go about it.
After these I will make sure I don't buy a boat with these motors in them hehe

Kane
 

achris

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For all of you answering this thread who live in the US. Let me point out a few things you may not already know.

Advice relative to US parts availability and pricing is so far out the door here (Australia) it's no longer a joke. I heard some talk about 'just put a couple of 4.3s in'.. That would be easy, only there are NO cars with that engine in sold in Australia. Yes, in the US you have them stacked up at the junk yard, but not here. The ONLY people who see those engines are people working on Mercruiser and Volvo powered boats.

Pricing in one of my pet-hates. I needed a new oil pan, timing cover and oil pan gasket for my boat engine. To buy locally, I was looking at over $700 for the oil pan, $380 for the timing cover and $85 for the gasket. If you look at any GM parts supplier site in the US you'll find the oil pan for $159, the timing cover for $39 and that $85 gasket for $9.90...... THAT is what Kane and I are up against.... Just dropping in a couple of 4.3s is a lovely idea, but completely impractical here....

Anybody wishing at add USEFUL and POSITIVE advice is welcome to continue contributing, but to continually bash the guy for buying 470s is out of order!

Chris..........
 

achris

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The only electronics you will be replacing is the stator and points Remove the magnets from the stator,then start looking for a marine alternator,Ebay.Petronix makes a conversion kit for the points and that will set you back a 100.00.Again anyone that monitors there engine on a regular basis will not have any issues with this engine.NOT sure why some people talk turd unless there clueless, those comments are uncalled for.People have issues because of there own lack of knowledge on engines and how to maintain them,like reading the manual that tells you to change the impeller on a regular basis.Looking through the different engine forums I see every make and model has issues over time,so I guess there all "turds"as well.

No, as the boat was underwater (salt water) and left unattended to for 3 months, even if it was only in the water for a short time, the starter motors, solenoids, trim pumps, and the entire wiring looms will be shot. Salt water takes no prisoners. You drop a wire in it that has an end open and kiss it good-bye! And I'm pretty sure the ali carbs having been full of salt water for 3 months will be a handful on their own. Mr88, you boat mainly in fresh water, yes? (up-state NY?) Salt water is a whole different ball of wax....

If the blocks have been full of SALT water for that long, you can also have a look at a couple of new crankshafts, and camshafts. depending on the condition of the internal coating, the blocks may also have corrosion damage.

I do agree with you about the turd comments, but will add that these engine ARE a problem. The open deck with ali block and iron heads is a well known and documented issue, as is the front pulley mounted alternator. And the fully enclosed water pump pulley has its own issues too. Although changed later, the 3" heat exchanger is another weak point. These engines have more single point issues than most engines. That said, running right, the problems modified where possible and maintained, yes these engines will give good, reliable and economical service. As 'joe average' don't have the nouse to do all that properly, they attracted a poor reputation. THAT makes them difficult to 'on sell'.....

Chris..........
 

Watermann

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I would really enjoy seeing some photos of your resurrected craft! I think it would be a good idea to drop on over the restoration forum and start up a thread there. :thumb:
 

stonyloam

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A 460 Ford kit will not be of much use. Most of the gaskets are specific to the 470. In any case you do not want to use the Ford head gasket, you need to use the OEM Mercruiser head gasket. Sierra gaskets are OK for the rest of the engine.
 

eNaK

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Apr 26, 2015
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Thanks again guys.cheers Chris for all the info.
After learning about these motors I have to say it has got me a bit worried. So I was looking yesterday and found a couple of Volvo AQAD40 with the Volvo 280 legs.
What does everyone know about these motors. Are they a good unit? Reliable? There are a couple available at a good price so we are looking at these as a realistic option. And I'm thinking the resale of the boat will be increased with these as well

Would like to see what you guys think.

Cheers

Kane
 
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81 Checkmate

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Been Following the thread and curious. Is it possible to retrofit the 3.0 - 4 cylinder in place of the 470?s
 
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