mercruiser 888 compatability

[dentalguy]

Hi I'm new to the forum Thanks in advance for any help given.
Ill try to keep this long story short ...I bought a 1980 sea ray boat its a 165hp inline6 with a mercruiser pre alpha drive. I bought this boat as a turnkey boat however after getting it home I decided it needed a few things nothing major the first thing I realized is that it didn't shift good at all grinded in and out of gear. After doing some you tubing on the subject I did the diagnostic of the lower shift cable which had almost 1 1/2" of play and I believe the max said 9/16" (I think) so I bought a shift cable. upon installing the shift cable I looked inside the outdrive where the shift cable slides in and out with the block shaped piece attached and noticed what appeared to be jb weld patched on the side of the housing which raised a red flag. I chipped it off and to verify my fear the case had a 1/4" hole in the side that was patched with jb weld. Now my dilemma is to replace the upper unit or replace the whole drive.

would a mercruiser 888 be good for my setup (there is one on cl for 250)
what is the most ideal gear ratio for my boat (19 ft sea ray 165hp) The reason I ask is I've read 1.81-1.84- 1.6 which confuses the hell out of me!
and if I just decided to replace the upper unit does it matter what series or geared upper I choose? I would think an alpha 1 gen 1 would work??? but I'm foggy on the gearing is that strictly dictated by the upper and all of the lowers are basically the same?

 

[alldodge]

Hi I'm new to the forum Thanks in advance for any help given.
Ill try to keep this long story short ...I bought a 1980 sea ray boat its a 165hp inline6 with a mercruiser pre alpha drive. I bought this boat as a turnkey boat however after getting it home I decided it needed a few things nothing major the first thing I realized is that it didn't shift good at all grinded in and out of gear. After doing some you tubing on the subject I did the diagnostic of the lower shift cable which had almost 1 1/2" of play and I believe the max said 9/16" (I think) so I bought a shift cable. upon installing the shift cable I looked inside the outdrive where the shift cable slides in and out with the block shaped piece attached and noticed what appeared to be jb weld patched on the side of the housing which raised a red flag. I chipped it off and to verify my fear the case had a 1/4" hole in the side that was patched with jb weld. Now my dilemma is to replace the upper unit or replace the whole drive.

would a mercruiser 888 be good for my setup (there is one on cl for 250)
what is the most ideal gear ratio for my boat (19 ft sea ray 165hp) The reason I ask is I've read 1.81-1.84- 1.6 which confuses the hell out of me!
and if I just decided to replace the upper unit does it matter what series or geared upper I choose? I would think an alpha 1 gen 1 would work??? but I'm foggy on the gearing is that strictly dictated by the upper and all of the lowers are basically the same?

:welcome: to iboats

Could sure use some pics for us to be able to help decide best path forward. Without those and your going to get into replace parts of the drive I would recommend getting a new SCI drive.

If you can find the serial number of your drive we can determine what the ratio is. If you don't have the serial number then with the drive removed, rotate the drive shaft and count the number of turns you get.

I would stay clear of real old stuff such as the 888, while they were good motors, you messing with another guys old stuff which probably needs work also

 

[dentalguy]

Thanks AllDodge you are confirming my thoughts I was just on sci's webpage looking before I read this message seems like a pretty nice option. I'm left wondering however which gearing would be the best 1.62 or 1.81? some research has led me to believe that the 1.62 came in those in 1980 but it looks like a 1.81 would work too according to horsepower..... I'm left wondering which one is better???? I will try to get some photos up today it's a good solid boat has a good hull, transom, floor, apholstery and stringers otherwise I wouldn't be putting so much effort into an old boat like this one. In the meantime I will pull the top off of the case and start counting teeth on the gears to see what was in it. This damn outdrive has me confused though, because it has the round top with the eye hole which is typical of the pre alpha but on the sides it doesn't have the grooves so I'm thinking it is a gen 1 with the pre alpha top (if that's possible) so I really don't know if this is the original drive or if its even the right geared drive for the boat at this point.

 

[alldodge]

You should be able to use either without issue. I would try to stay the same as you currently have do to the prop. If you keep the same ratio then you should be able to use the current prop. The 1.81 spins the prop slightly faster then the 1.62, so if you have a 1.81 and go with 1.62 replacement then you will need a high pitch prop, or vise versa going the other way.

Now all bets are off if, if you could not reach recommended WOT, or you could over rev the engine prior to having outdrive trouble. No telling what the prior owner could have done, sometimes it really makes ya scratch your head real good. My guess its probably not original

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...miscellaneous-mercruiser-information?t=329915

 

[Bondo]

Hi I'm new to the forum Thanks in advance for any help given.
Ill try to keep this long story short ...I bought a 1980 sea ray boat its a 165hp inline6 with a mercruiser pre alpha drive. I bought this boat as a turnkey boat however after getting it home I decided it needed a few things nothing major the first thing I realized is that it didn't shift good at all grinded in and out of gear. After doing some you tubing on the subject I did the diagnostic of the lower shift cable which had almost 1 1/2" of play and I believe the max said 9/16" (I think) so I bought a shift cable. upon installing the shift cable I looked inside the outdrive where the shift cable slides in and out with the block shaped piece attached and noticed what appeared to be jb weld patched on the side of the housing which raised a red flag. I chipped it off and to verify my fear the case had a 1/4" hole in the side that was patched with jb weld. Now my dilemma is to replace the upper unit or replace the whole drive.

would a mercruiser 888 be good for my setup (there is one on cl for 250)
what is the most ideal gear ratio for my boat (19 ft sea ray 165hp) The reason I ask is I've read 1.81-1.84- 1.6 which confuses the hell out of me!
and if I just decided to replace the upper unit does it matter what series or geared upper I choose? I would think an alpha 1 gen 1 would work??? but I'm foggy on the gearing is that strictly dictated by the upper and all of the lowers are basically the same?

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,.... Lots, 'n Lotsa Great info on Mercs up in Don'S Adults Only section at the top of the I/O forums,.....

In short, Nope, the 888 has the V8 gears, 1.50:1,....

Yer I6 runs best with the 1.84:1 ratio, if in a larger heavier hull,....
It'll run the 1.65:1 gears in a lighter hull,....

Yer Chevy based In-line motor also has to use the shorter input shaft, that others don't,...

'n lastly, the gear ratio is determined in the Upper gear set,....
The Lower units Are interchangeable,...

 

[dentalguy]

Thanks Bondo very useful information. Ill try to get some photos of the outdrive repair we attempted to no avail little welding we figured we had nothing to lose but tomorrow I will order a new upper from SEI. I love wrenching on boats as long as everything goes right otherwise I cuss myself for not dropping 40-50 K for a new one lol I'm still convincing the wife that it was a good deal despit the 1200 I will have into it to have it lake worthy. I only paid 1000 for it though, trailer had 4 brand new tires new cover, kicker motor that is in great shape.... I figure I'm still in good shape.... we'll see

 

[dentalguy]

sorry guys I couldn't get the pictures to upload. I do seek your expertise again however. I just bolted on a new sei drive I matched the gearing that originally came in the boat 1:62 and it's a 165 hp 18' v hull. I'm wanting to know what size and pitch prop would work best for all around boating tubing etc for this setup?

 

[alldodge]

sorry guys I couldn't get the pictures to upload. I do seek your expertise again however. I just bolted on a new sei drive I matched the gearing that originally came in the boat 1:62 and it's a 165 hp 18' v hull. I'm wanting to know what size and pitch prop would work best for all around boating tubing etc for this setup?

Prop selection is a big subject,your best bet would to find a prop shop or dealer which will let you try some. I would guess you would be in the 15 degree pitch area. Now don't go out and buy one this is just a guess. Every boat and boater adds variables which can change the final outcome.

As for posting pics you have two ways. Either use a site like photobucket or upload them from your computer. Make sure you can see the tool bar above where your entering text. If the toolbar is not there press the big A between the paper with clip and the smiley face in upper right corner.





If your uploading from your computer you must upload one at a time

 

[dentalguy]

Some pics of the repair attempt and the boat

 

[dentalguy]

Ok second try

 

[alldodge]

Ok second try

Your using the clip board to attach the pics. I selected your pic, then selected the icon which looks like mountains, then pasted into the link.

 

[dentalguy]

Crap pic but all I have for now. The weld turned out good we just had trouble in one spot and finally threw in the towel. The ugly part of the weld is where the problem area is anyone who's ever attempted to weld cast aluminum would attest to the difficulty

 

[dentalguy]

ok I put the new sei outdrive on and also put an hei ignitions system in the boat the engine runs excellent but my prop seems like it's less than ideal it's going about 20 mph at 3000 rpm. also the new sei outdrive makes a knocking sound when I turn hard right or hard left. I didn't check the engine alignment when I installed it and it seem'd harder than normal to get it on the boat my question is would the engine alignment cause that knocking chatter when turning? also what prop do you think would be best? tomorrow I will try to get the old prop off to see if it has a stamp or something to tell me what I'm currently running. if you have a similar set up as me what prop have you found good? again Im running a 19 ft sea ray alpha 1 1;62 gears with a 165 hp inline6

 

[achris]

HEI sounds alarm bells for me. Is it a proper marine unit? If not, remove it and put the old distributor back in, then go get a Pertronix ignition kit. Non-marine electrical and fuel system components turn your boat into a floating bomb!

 

[dentalguy]

it had a brand new one of those on it when I bought it and it wouldn't time at all and was only putting out half the spark we couldn't get it to work and with it only being two years old I didn't want to replace it with another crappy old school distributor. my mechanic recommended a hei and it runs way better than any other l six i've seen. I'll look into it though thanks for the concern

 

[dentalguy]

As far as I can tell the main difference between a marine distributor and a car distributor is the spark arrestor (as far as safety goes) I will correct this on mine and go with it. Again thanks achris for raising awareness, good to have things like that pointed out to us novice boat mechanics. we were thinking more on the lines of making the boat more reliable and predictable on the water and it did do that so far, but we failed to think about the dangers. luckily this boat has some of the best air ventilation I've seen, it runs the full length of the rear and has to large scoops on each side hopefully that takes care of any fumes that could occur along with the fan.

 

[alldodge]

ok I put the new sei outdrive on and also put an hei ignitions system in the boat the engine runs excellent but my prop seems like it's less than ideal it's going about 20 mph at 3000 rpm. also the new sei outdrive makes a knocking sound when I turn hard right or hard left. I didn't check the engine alignment when I installed it and it seem'd harder than normal to get it on the boat my question is would the engine alignment cause that knocking chatter when turning? also what prop do you think would be best? tomorrow I will try to get the old prop off to see if it has a stamp or something to tell me what I'm currently running. if you have a similar set up as me what prop have you found good? again Im running a 19 ft sea ray alpha 1 1;62 gears with a 165 hp inline6

That would be my first thought, pull the drive and fix the alignment. On hard turns the input shaft is being pulled out of the engine coupler a bit more. This can cause your knocking.

As far as I can tell the main difference between a marine distributor and a car distributor is the spark arrestor

No, the marine distributer does not have a vacuum advance, the advance is done by mechanical weights in the distributer

 

[dentalguy]

That would be my first thought, pull the drive and fix the alignment. On hard turns the input shaft is being pulled out of the engine coupler a bit more. This can cause your knocking.
Ordered the tool I will give it a try and report back I know a ton of others have this same issue.

No, the marine distributer does not have a vacuum advance, the advance is done by mechanical weights in the distributer

You are correct.. I ran the boat without the advance and it ran really good. I will look more into it I still have the Mallory boat distributor but it is malfunctioning which is why my mechanic told me to do hei now I'm second guessing that decision based on safety. The Mallory was an absolute piece of junk Unfortunatly. Reliability and function the hei is hands down the best but I dont think any of us thought about the safety differences. I personally think having the coil contained on the cap makes it safer but the vaccine advance area is definitely a problem area. Does anyone have any solid proven evidence that this has caused harm other than codes and here say...out of curiosity? To me making sure your boat is fume free should be priority with ventilation and a good solid fuel line/system. Anyone use fume detectors if so do they work well?

 

[Bondo]

Does anyone have any solid proven evidence that this has caused harm other than codes and here say...out of curiosity?

Ayuh,.... If it were just here say, there wouldn't be CG Regs 'bout distributors Havin' to be Marine rated,.....

 

[achris]

The difference between a marine and an non-marine distributor is that the marine distributor must not be capable of initiating a fire/explosion. That's achieved by giving the cap a gasket to sit on and the body a screened vent. The distributor must also be 'sealed' (in such a way as to not allow petrol vapours up through the shaft/body interface that could be ignited inside the distributor) from the crankcase. Most automotive distributors can be 'adapted' for the first 2 items, but fail dismally on the last, and can't be modified to comply. This is code, not hearsay.

Chris......