1976 Colbalt Mercruiser 233 Ignition - Starter problem

[This Ship of Fools]

Well here we go The good news is I bought this boat 1976 Cobalt w/ Mercrusier 233 She's got only 282 hours on the clock Interior is near mint That bad news is I bought this boat (and she needs a little ? work)
The prior owner said that he could not get it running this year do to a problem with the ignition system not energizing the starter, so he started working on it and couldn't get her to go and gave up He replaced the starter solenoid and added new battery cables

The problem is still the same now This is what I found so far We have new fully charged battery The ignition switch checks out fine With the key turned to the start position as to start the engine we have no clicks at the solenoid at the same time we have power at the I and S terminals at the solenoid Power on the left side of the solenoid ( Positive cable from the battery) but no power at the solenoid terminal going to the starter The drawing shows a ground wire on the solenoid but there is no connection provided on the solenoid for a ground

Any help will be greatly appreciated

 

[alldodge]

Well here we go The good news is I bought this boat 1976 Cobalt w/ Mercrusier 233 She's got only 282 hours on the clock Interior is near mint That bad news is I bought this boat (and she needs a little ? work)
The prior owner said that he could not get it running this year do to a problem with the ignition system not energizing the starter, so he started working on it and couldn't get her to go and gave up He replaced the starter solenoid and added new battery cables

The problem is still the same now This is what I found so far We have new fully charged battery The ignition switch checks out fine With the key turned to the start position as to start the engine we have no clicks at the solenoid at the same time we have power at the I and S terminals at the solenoid Power on the left side of the solenoid ( Positive cable from the battery) but no power at the solenoid terminal going to the starter The drawing shows a ground wire on the solenoid but there is no connection provided on the solenoid for a ground

Any help will be greatly appreciated

On the starter solenoid you have Red wire coming from the 50 amp breaker and the other side goes to the S terminal on the starter. There should be 2 small wires on the other terminals, one black which is ground and the other should be Yellow with black stripe. Can you use a jumper wire and go from the large red terminal to the Yellow/Black and will the starter engage?

 

[Bt Doctur]

jump these connection and the starter should spin ,report back. is this a ford motor?

 

[This Ship of Fools]

Just gave that a try The results were no engagement of the starter just sparks at touch terminal (red side of solenoid )

 

[This Ship of Fools]

Oh yes this is Ford Motor

 

[alldodge]

Just gave that a try The results were no engagement of the starter just sparks at touch terminal (red side of solenoid )

What color wires are on the solenoid, like shown above by BtDoc or the black and yellow/black on the small terminals?

 

[This Ship of Fools]

The wire configuration is that of the BtDoc illustration We have the tan going to the I small post and the yellow going to the S small post The post connected to the starter is on the opposite side of the solenoid that is a larger gauge red wire and that is the only wire going to the starter other than the grounds that are secured to the starter mount bolt

 

[alldodge]

The wire configuration is that of the BtDoc illustration We have the tan going to the I small post and the yellow going to the S small post The post connected to the starter is on the opposite side of the solenoid that is a larger gauge red wire and that is the only wire going to the starter other than the grounds that are secured to the starter mount bolt

My wiring came from manual 3 at Boat info. Then I would say someone change the solenoid out with one which the relay coil is grounded by the other small terminal. To test my theory, remove the tan wire from the small terminal. Take a jumper and go from the same terminal the tan wire came off of and take it to engine ground. Now jump across the same terminals BtDoc mentioned and let us know what happens

 

[This Ship of Fools]

Removed tan wire ( positive side of coil wire) from solenoid added ground wire from ( I ) post to engine block Did same test with the hot battery post side of solenoid jumped to the ( S ) post of solenoid still just some light sparking no engagement or clicking Voltage at the battery is 12.9 volts voltage at the yellow while off the solenoid is 12.3 volts with the ignition key in the start position Jumped around ( bypassed the solenoid ) Hot side from battery to positive terminal on the starter , the starter turns The solenoid is mounted to the exhaust manifold My guess is maybe this is the wrong solenoid , not getting a good ground or the solenoid is toasted I would think 12.3 volts would be enough to energize it I may just order a new solenoid remove all the connectors clean them and try it again

 

[alldodge]

I would say the issue is the solenoid. You just applied 12V to the Yellow wire direct and it didn't energize. Remove the small wires off the solenoid, then with a ohm meter measure across the two small terminals. Then measure from each small terminal to the case on the solenoid. Somewhere you should a low reading if the coil is working. If it was replaced with a standard Ford solenoid then one of the two terminals is ground. If it is the correct one then one terminal will connect to the 12V red lead for use during starting.

 

[This Ship of Fools]

Ok Here's an update I unhooked all the wires from the solenoid and low and behold I found a black wire for the main wiring harness that was attached to a mounting bolt behind the solenoid mounting bracket bought a new solenoid wired it up hooked up the black wire to the ( I ) terminal turned the key and she works like a charm
My only question now is what do I do with the tan wire from the positive side of the coil?

 

[alldodge]

Ok Here's an update I unhooked all the wires from the solenoid and low and behold I found a black wire for the main wiring harness that was attached to a mounting bolt behind the solenoid mounting bracket bought a new solenoid wired it up hooked up the black wire to the ( I ) terminal turned the key and she works like a charm
My only question now is what do I do with the tan wire from the positive side of the coil?

Great to hear you got it going.

As for the tan wire it is there to supply power to the coil while the engine is being cranked. The older relay (not the one you bought) would connect the red terminal to the tan wire while cranking. The yellow wire turns hot when the engine is being cranked from the key switch, and turns off after the key is released. Connecting the tan wire to the Yellow should work.

Edit: By the way, does the engine start without the tan wire connected?

 

[This Ship of Fools]

I will hook that up and see if I can get it started This is a boat I purchased off of Ebay from Boat Angel Ministries The prior owner said that it was running in 2013 and I bought it as a non-runner I will put the muffs on and see if she will fire up today and let you know Thanks for all the assistance

 

[Bt Doctur]

the solenoid that is there may work . the purpose of the" I "circuit was to supply full battery voltage to the coil during starting only. the solenoid you have is called a isolated base and needs the ground wire to work. you need a ford solenoid with the grounded base. then you can connect the "I" wire .

 

[frank246]

You can not hook the purple (ign boost) with the yellow (cranking) wire.. the purple gets aprox 9v from the coil when ign is on and posible keeps the solenoid activated. Then..starter will keep turning when engine runs.

 

[This Ship of Fools]

Tried to start her up without the tan coil wire attached to the solenoid Turns over great But now that it does turn over We have new issues No fuel to the carb Since we have been able to get her to turn over I may as well go though the engine a little more I will pick up another solenoid ( grounded base) so we have all the wiring hooked up I tried pouring a little fuel down the carb to see if see would pop but no luck there The coil may really need that boost to get her goin. I going to run a compression test on the engine to see just what we have there and if that's good May as well redo the fuel system , New fuel pump filters and carb rebuild and clean out the fuel tank I will probably be starting a new post depending on what the results are . I didn't pay a whole lot for the boat so all of this is to be expected I will say that Cobalt does build one heck of a boat The interior is like sitting in a Caddy and lots of teak wood everywhere Thanks again for all of you help

 

[alldodge]

You can not hook the purple (ign boost) with the yellow (cranking) wire.. the purple gets aprox 9v from the coil when ign is on and posible keeps the solenoid activated. Then..starter will keep turning when engine runs.

This is a Ford motor and the wiring is different then the typical Merc. With a Merc the tan wire goes to the tach, on this one it goes to the start circuit. See BtDoc's diagram above

The Ship of Fools Tried to start her up without the tan coil wire attached to the solenoid Turns over great But now that it does turn over We have new issues No fuel to the carb Since we have been able to get her to turn over I may as well go though the engine a little more I will pick up another solenoid ( grounded base) so we have all the wiring hooked up I tried pouring a little fuel down the carb to see if see would pop but no luck there The coil may really need that boost to get her goin. I going to run a compression test on the engine to see just what we have there and if that's good May as well redo the fuel system , New fuel pump filters and carb rebuild and clean out the fuel tank I will probably be starting a new post depending on what the results are . I didn't pay a whole lot for the boat so all of this is to be expected I will say that Cobalt does build one heck of a boat The interior is like sitting in a Caddy and lots of teak wood everywhere Thanks again for all of you help

Shouldn't need to post another thread but you could, your call, it's still a start problem. Either way check for spark at the coil, may just need points