mercruiser high pitch whine

spartenos

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Evening all. I searched and searched and seem to have information that points both ways. ... I have a mercruiser alpha one gen 2. Thanks to service manual 14, seloc, and this forum, I changed my gimbal bearing, carrier oil seal, bellows and a few other things. In the interest of full information, I had to pull the gimbal bearing one time due to misalignment with the grease hole. I used a wrench type puller. Not a slide hammer. I got rolling torque right on my second try and put everything back together. We went on a camping trip this weekend and there is a high pitched whine the second I put it in gear. It is either absent or much quieter out of gear. I seem to have found two opinions. ... I screwed up the gimbal bearing or the ujoint bearings are bad. The whine does seem to get worse when turning side to side and there is a tiny sweet spot where it stops. Since I used a bearing driver, my only thought it that the puller, which pulls on the inner race, damaged the bearing when it came out. It looked and felt normal before I put it back in. Thoughts? Could this whine be caused if I actually got the rolling torque wrong? Or is it more likely that I screwed up the gimbal bearing? Going to take it all back apart tomorrow, any advice is appreciated for a head start!
 

alldodge

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Evening all. I searched and searched and seem to have information that points both ways. ... I have a mercruiser alpha one gen 2. Thanks to service manual 14, seloc, and this forum, I changed my gimbal bearing, carrier oil seal, bellows and a few other things. In the interest of full information, I had to pull the gimbal bearing one time due to misalignment with the grease hole. I used a wrench type puller. Not a slide hammer. I got rolling torque right on my second try and put everything back together. We went on a camping trip this weekend and there is a high pitched whine the second I put it in gear. It is either absent or much quieter out of gear. I seem to have found two opinions. ... I screwed up the gimbal bearing or the ujoint bearings are bad. The whine does seem to get worse when turning side to side and there is a tiny sweet spot where it stops. Since I used a bearing driver, my only thought it that the puller, which pulls on the inner race, damaged the bearing when it came out. It looked and felt normal before I put it back in. Thoughts? Could this whine be caused if I actually got the rolling torque wrong? Or is it more likely that I screwed up the gimbal bearing? Going to take it all back apart tomorrow, any advice is appreciated for a head start!

I don't think it's the gimbal, I'm leaning toward damage to the bearing cage or something else inside the drive. Hope achris or btdoc come in and advise
 

spartenos

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In case it matters or helps.... When I greased the gimbal bearing, grease squirted out of a few places, but not entirely around the entire inside of the ring. Thanks! I do too!
 
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A worn top bearing under the top cover can cause a loud squeal if worn. Mine did. I don't remember though if it was all the time or under load, think all the time. It was due to the drive having a leaking prop shaft seal (from wire fishing line getting wrapped and damaged the shaft)I didn't take care of it soon enough and must have ran it a little low on lube damaging the top bearing.

Between those two things the drive was replaced.

You changed your carrier seal... it must have been leaking.... so if you ran low on lube could be the same damage to the top bearing.
 

achris

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Even using a puller, as you speculated, pulls on the inner race and WILL put micro-cracks in the hardened surfaces of the balls and the races of the bearing. However, as the noise is only occurs in gear, that would indicate it's in the gear (lower) housing, but I'm a little confused. You also said by trimming and moving the steering you can get the noise to go away. That would put it back in the gimbal/uni area. As the gimbal bearings are not really that expensive (for people of the USA :mad:) I would go ahead and replace that one first. It's the easiest and cheapest of all options... ;)

Chris......
(Happy AD? :D)

EDIT: Just did a search on your previous posts, (to try and work out what engine you have), and I noticed a little thread about beating the retainer nut spanner with a hammer :facepalm: to reach the right torque.... Beating the drive with a hammer-now you have noise.... Hmmmmm Wonder if they're related?????
 
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ktbarrentine

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And recommended to get rid of the Seloc manual (I wonder if they ever get any feedback on how much we trash them on here!:facepalm:)
 

spartenos

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Alright - I have some new information after getting the boat home and yanking the leg off again.

First - Chris - I totally admit that using the mallet on the retainer wrench was the wrong thing - even if a few different places recommended it - I can promise that I won't do that again.

I removed the leg, placed it on the stand and reached in and felt the gimbal bearing. It feels like it moves effortlessly in both directions (left\right) using two fingers.

Now we get to the "fun" part. The U-joint\shaft is a different story. The closest of the 3 orings to the spline was ripped in one spot and therefor not doing its job.

Secondly, and likely more importantly, the drive gear has marks on it (almost like pitting) where it didn't have them when I put it back together before. Obviously I did something wrong here.

Going back through everything, step by step, I noted some information that is conflicting......

Chris, I found a post where you mentioned that the wrong preload could impact the spacing not being right.... Everything that I have read on here says that if the bearings don't fall off of the gear (by hand), then you have the new style bearings where you must do rolling torque (which I did)... When I read page 3A-7, it states
"Universal Joint Bearing Set
IMPORTANT: Alpha One Sterndrive Units beginning with serial number 0L100009 and
above no longer use the cone spacer between the bearings in the U-joint assembly
to set the bearing preload. A new procedure has been established for adjusting this
preload and is covered in the following instructions. The O.D. of the new drive gear
bearing carrier has changed to 3.265 in. (82.9 mm)."

Now, my serial number is 0F something something, which would seem to indicate that I should actually be torquing the nut down, instead of doing rolling torque (unless I am interpreting this wrong).

I have rebuilt many outboards before and am scratching my head here at what could cause the gears to be not lined up the way they were before. I did place both the shim and spacer back into the drive before putting the ujoint back in.
 

Bt Doctur

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forget the serial number for a minute. If you were able to push off the gears and bearing AND find the inner collar, then you just tighten the nut down because you have a early gearset.
If you had to drive the gears off the yoke and did not find a inner spacer, you have a new style and must use the rolling torque method.
a replacement gearset must use the rolling torque if you follow the directions and leave out the inner spacer.With new gearsets I install the inner spacer and just tighten down the nut to spec and forget the rolling torque.
 
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achris

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That pasage refers to method # 3... First method was with the small spacer between the 2 big bearings. Second method was the first of the rolling torque methods, the one you should be using. This new method, we'll call #3, is for the latest drives (and the only difference is you don't use a hose clamp to hold the bearing square, as the new bearing is a different diameter. The method of setting and the spec is the same as method #2)....

When you re-assembled, did you, a) make sure you put ALL the shims back in, and b) as I suggested, check you have a small amount of backlash between the drive and driven gears? There is no spec, or even a suggestion of checking it, but it's just something I do to make sure I haven't missed something....

Chris.....
 
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spartenos

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No Title

They DO slip right off the yoke.

I have attached a picture to help, since I currently feel like an idiot.
 

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Bt Doctur

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If they just slip off, you need the inner spacer and just tighten the nut to spec.did you find the spacer when you did the work
 
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spartenos

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Chris,

How would I go about checking this backlash? I know that you need the proper shimming tool to check it for the forward\reverse gears.

BT:

I didn't find anything else except what you see here - the bearings are still on the drive gear. - I assume that means I do NOT have an inner spacer, as Chris seems to be thinking.
 
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Bt Doctur

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the yoke is not the question. can you remove the bearings with your hands? Yes,then you need the inner ring. No, then you have a newer gearset and must use rolling torque.
Witch is it?
The backlash achris mentions is more of a slight feel of "click,click" in the inputshaft when gently rotated back and forth.
 
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spartenos

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It is rolling torque (which is what I had done, using a in/lb torque gauge). I will have to check for the backlash today after my "real" job. I appreciate you all more than I can express into words - I am sure I appear as a complete idiot, but hopefully my questions can help someone else in the future.....

Thanks again!
 

achris

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BtDoc, he has a Gen II drive, they are all done using rolling torque, there was never an inner spacer on those drives. And the bearing do just 'fall off' on those gears....

Spart... There is no spec or procedure for checking backlash in the upper box, it's done using the shimming tools, but I ALWAYS check for that slight 'click-click' as you rock the yoke forwards and backwards (as BtDoc said). If I feel that, then I know I'm good to go. No click-click means there is no backlash, and that's bad, too much movement means too much backlash, but that one is something you just have to learn from doing a few. I use this test to verify that I haven't left the shims out or put too many in... For the moment, you are looking for a slight click-click... I think the chances of you having added too many shims is zero, as you would not have had any 'laying around on the bench', as I did in the shop when I was building 2 or 3 boxes a day...

Chris......
 
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spartenos

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Chris,

Thanks! Definitely didn't leave anything out as I had it all laid out and labeled as to what went where.
A lesson that I took to heart when I started working on engines many years ago.... I MAY have reversed the
order that the shim and spacer go back into the drive in - could that have impacted this? I don't think I did,
but wanted to run through every possible scenario as I stepped back through the manual and procedures....

I will check for the "click-click" when I get home today.
Question - Is it possible - even if unlikely - that the yoke assembly was not pushed far enough into
the housing? When I pushed it back in last night, just for a sanity check, it felt like there was a very
slight gap between the assembly and the shims\spacer. It could be my imagination - but it would ALSO explain
the slight amount of thread that was showing on the retainer nut.......

Either way... Thanks, and I will report back this evening!

Ben
 

achris

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If the retainer didn't screw down far enough to lock the yoke in place, it can only do that if it's crossed up... Again, the backlash test will tell you if that happened, there will be too much movement in the 'click-click'....
 

Bt Doctur

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almost temped to start manufacturing a inner ring to do away with the stupid rolling torque setup. Now, you could order a new bearing kit that comes with both spacers Sierra 18-1160 and just tighten the nut.
 

spartenos

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Alrighty! Went to update yesterday but the forums were down for maintenance (Being in IT, I sadly understand that all too well)...

If I get the yoke into the right place, and rock the shaft back and forth, i definitely am getting a little click click as the two gears hit(mesh). At one point, I couldn't feel it\hear it - but as soon as I turned the shaft a little and tried again and it was back again (could have been lube dampening it before for all i know). I swapped out the gimbal bearing with the new non-serviceable one (now that I own the tools, swapping it out when it goes bad is no big deal). The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I had swapped the split ring and the actual shim... I assume that this could cause issues....

The old gimbal bearing felt and looked good, but I drove the new one in anyways, not taking the chance. I feel like it could go back further, but the driver and hammer beg to differ. It IS past the lead in chamfer\outer edge of the housing.

I ordered a new mounting kit (gasket and orings) as I have always followed the method that "once compressed, replace". Might try and test it with an old one, but I didn't remember hearing the whine on muffs last time, although I may have just been happy that the damn thing was running! Once I can get the drive tossed back up on the boat, can test it with muffs again. Michigan winter is coming quick, and i would love to use it a few more times this year!

Thanks all - will update soon.

P.S. BT - If I continue to have issues, or just as part of maintenance next year, I will keep that in mind...... Thanks!
 

spartenos

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Not much of an update as work has been crazy busy.... BUT... I found another extremely likely culprit\contributor for the issues! Turns out one of my ft/lb torque wrenches was out of calibration. The top cover was probably torqued down at LEAST 10 ft/lbs over where it should have been, if not 20. This would have impacted clearance, from what I have been reading. Should have the stern drive back on tonight or tomorrow... Will keep you all updated!
 
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