Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

[alldodge]

Story:
From my previous thread I had an issue with my Bravo 3 making some noise. The shop found that the top race was not installed correctly. They gave it back to me saying it was filled up a ready to go. I noticed some red oil so I loosened the bottom plug and red oil was present. Found out it was filled with 80W-90 Aqua Lube and is not synthetic. So I drained the lube and pumped in Merc stuff. Drained the Aqua stuff in a jug to recycle the next day. In the bottom of my drain pan I found a hole lot of metal shavings. Went back to the shop and was told, they flushed it out with carb cleaner and CRC but did not take the lower section apart. This is why I wind up doing everything myself, you just cannot find quality work. :frusty:

The shop did separate the two halves and take the top apart to fix the original issue. Shop said they did check back lash on the lower section and all was within spec and felt good.

Question:
Since I don't have all the tools "yet" I will need to completely overhaul the drive; do you think I can separate the two halves and flush it out with diesel? I'm hoping all of the big pieces have been found, or if any are left the flushing will work.

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

After reviewing my current issue I think I'm going to have to disassemble both upper and lower halves to know what I have. Plan remains as before but not my question is, what are the minimal tools needed to just remove enough so I can flush it out. What I'm seeing is the carrier bearing tool (Merc 91-805374-1 or GLM 90409) for the lower gear housing. The upper can be removed from the top and shift selector with no special tools.

Will wash everything out with diesel.

Are the tool selections correct and should I replace any of the seals? Do plan to pressure test after reassembly. Am I missing anything?

 

[achris]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

If you've pulled it down that far I'd replace the seal... Here's why. All those metal shaving will also have been acting on the seals. I suspect if you examine then closely you'll find signs that the metal has been working on the seals too. If they aren't leaking now, I would think their life is considerably shortened...

JMHO...

Chris......
Oh, washing with diesel is a good start. My preference would be to COMPLETELY disassemble everything, wash and dry....

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

If you've pulled it down that far I'd replace the seal... Here's why. All those metal shaving will also have been acting on the seals. I suspect if you examine then closely you'll find signs that the metal has been working on the seals too. If they aren't leaking now, I would think their life is considerably shortened...

JMHO...

Chris......
Oh, washing with diesel is a good start. My preference would be to COMPLETELY disassemble everything, wash and dry....

My hero !! :cheerful: , :sorry: didn't want to get emotional and everything been waiting for you to show up
As before I don't have any of the special tools so that's were I'm starting. I need to get into it and started looking at all the tools necessary for a complete over haul, and wow that is some coin. So what would be the minimum (I know loaded question, sorry) to see what the gears, seals look like before I go full tilt. I will go all in but would like to ease in.

 

[achris]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Yeah, just had a look at the tools... It's quite a list, but most are just generics.. Also, with this particular job, you won't be changing gears, bearings or shims (we hope), so a lot of the tools for setting up backlashs, and clearances shouldn't be needed. Just get the tools you need to get it all stripped down...

Clamp plate (looks like it is easy enough fabricated)
Bearing carrier tool
Drive shaft adaptor
And a slide hammer.

That should be all you need to strip, clean and reassemble the lower unit... (and replace all the seals)

HTH,

Chris......
(Looks easier than an Alpha lower unit)

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Way cool, thanks

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

I just ran across this helpful tool site while looking for better info for the B3 prop shaft oil leak thread. It may help you as well. Bravo

Bear in mind that there are two parts to the bearing carrier and retainer tools, so you'll need both. 91-805382 and 91-805374.

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

I just ran across this helpful tool site while looking for better info for the B3 prop shaft oil leak thread. It may help you as well. Bravo

Bear in mind that there are two parts to the bearing carrier and retainer tools, so you'll need both. 91-805382 and 91-805374.

Thanks much, I found there is another tool 91-805374-1 or GLM 90409 which puts both tools into one tool. It shows it on your sight as B2 only but others show it as B3

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

I just ran across this helpful tool site while looking for better info for the B3 prop shaft oil leak thread. It may help you as well. Bravo

Bear in mind that there are two parts to the bearing carrier and retainer tools, so you'll need both. 91-805382 and 91-805374.

You where right

Thanks much, I found there is another tool 91-805374-1 or GLM 90409 which puts both tools into one tool. It shows it on your sight as B2 only but others show it as B3

The one I found removes the outer carrier bearing "only". I read through the manual several times and when you look at the pics it appears to be the same tool, but there not. So today I got my new tool and removed the out carrier bearing, what a happy guy I was. Later I finally figured out why I can't get it out, now not so happy guy.

Just ordered the two additional tools and I wait once again.

Did get the top half apart and there was a lot of stuff need to clean out. Have it ready to go back together but waiting for the upper seal kit to arrive. Lower one came in but go figure can't use it yet.

Oh fun, fun

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/11/11covr5x.pdf

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Now this is something that would make just go and dunk your hat in the creek, dag nab it. Got the seals for the upper section and started putting it back together. Went to put the bottom race in before the needle bearings and broke out my trusty micrometer. The housing was stamped 91, so checked the race it was .091, great. Slide it the needle bearings, then the clutch gears and made sure the timing marks were aligned. Installed the drive shaft gear and torqued to 200 ftLB. Went over to get the needle bearings for the top along with the top race, and no Gaul-darn race. :mad-new:

This is when I realized there never was a race. The guy who I sent it to just installed another top and needle bearing off another drive. Now I got to go order another race. Dang crappy two-bit marine something or another, but sure is not a mechanic

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Manual shows using a small slide hammer puller to remove the carrier bearing seals. It also tells when the seals are reinstalled to use Loctite 271 (Red stuff) on the outer edge. I have a larger slide hammer and I cannot budge the seals. Could use a torch on the hub but really don't want to.

Is there any tricks to getting the seals out?

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Got the seal out and found out it has the newer seals installed. Don't know for sure but appears the lower drive section is newer then the upper.

Found another problem, wow big shock there Get ready to put the top back on and they shop I took it to replaced it with one which has an oil passage hole. My drive housing does not have an oil passage. Took the micrometer to the top race and it's .094, my housing marks says it should be .091. What a another rip



Also note there is damage to two sides or the inner race and one side along the edge of the housing.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

AllDodge:

Just catching up on this thread. I have always been hesitant about working on an outdrive, so kudos to you for taking this on. I assume that you will be posting updates and pics along the way?

I have to replace the upper seal on my port outdrive this year . . . not looking forward to it

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

AllDodge:

Just catching up on this thread. I have always been hesitant about working on an outdrive, so kudos to you for taking this on. I assume that you will be posting updates and pics along the way?

I have to replace the upper seal on my port outdrive this year . . . not looking forward to it

For the most part I didn't want to get into this for all the cost, figure pay someone $5 to 700 to go through would be OK. Just cannot find folks to do the job right, so far I have about $1000 in tools and counting. Could have posted more pics and will see what I can put together.

The port seal should be easy enough but will take some tools. Will need to remove the drive shaft and disassemble. For this time around I didn't disassemble mine, just washed out with diesel, then re-lubed. Should be easy enough with the right tools Then there is preload checks

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Well here is some of the stuff I have bought and used to do the B3 clean up.



The B3 outer prop shaft seal was the new style and was a real bear to get out. My large slide hammer could not budge it. Had to use a center punch and split it nice an slow rolling it inward. The correct tool to remove it is around $250, which I will be getting for next time.

I did install the new seal without the proper seal tool (another one I will need) buy using the idler gear from my CAT 3204 engine I'm over hauling. Turns out it fit perfect on the outer edge of the seal and did not touch the inner white plastic guard. Finished moving it the rest of the way once flush with a drift.



Here is the top of the gear case, wish I would have taken some pics before I installed the gears to show the timing marks

 

[achris]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Congratulations... Looks like you're the 'go to guy' for B3 questions now... Great job, nice work....

Chris...
(BTW, I completely agree with 'If you want a job done right, do it yourself'....)

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Sure glad I built this stand, don't know who I would have worked on this think without it. Tried to remove the nut holding the prop shaft and even though I flush the ting out, there was something between the threads. Moved to the gravel to help hold the stand. Work on it all morning only budging it about 1/16 at a time. Tighten loosen, and again and again.



A friend can help you from over 200 miles away. Was having trouble enough, but hold the stand and the wrench was even harder. He said do you have anything heavy to put on top of it... and yes I do, made it a little easier



This is what I was trying to remove. The nut is in the bottom



Finally got it out



Looking down inside the mouth of the beast

 

[alldodge]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Looks like I have some damage on the gears



Need to remove the hold down plate



Pinion gear and drive shaft needle bearings



Lots of parts



Inner prop shaft slides right out, just one set of needle bearings between them



Did manage to pull the inner shaft seal and it is also one of the new style double lip seal ($45 each). Used my large slider hammer again and it at least was able to do it. Thinking I can use the seal housing to press the new seal back in, will see. This is defiantly the newer style lower, the manual is not tracking perfectly. Good thing I also have manual 28 which matches closer

More fun to come Yea !!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Looks like i'm getting into bravo outdrive repair

Ayuh,... Looks like yer havin' Fun,..... My Buddy, Bob does the Bravos,... I ain't had 1 apart,...

By the looks of that gear, in the top pic, I'd say ya caught it in time,.... Great thing,...

It coulda gone Catastrophic sometime soon,.....