1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

[Pink Floyd]

Hello gentlemen,

This is my first post so please go gentle with me. I recently purchased a 1982 19ft bow rider with a Mercruiser 470, 224ci., inline 4 cyl., 170hp, engine (serial # 6038011). I'm not sure it matters but this has a Alpha One Outdrive (serial # 5999024). I have been battling out with this thing for two weeks now. Here's where I'm at in bullet statements for your ease

I have replaced with new the following:

1. Spark plugs (RBL-9Y / gapped to .035)
2. Spark plug wires (connectors greased with diode lube)
3. Distributor cap
4. Rotor
5. Breaker point manually gapped to .022" with feeler gauge. I am waiting on the delivery of my new "Dwell Meter" and plan on precisely setting the dwell angle upon its arrival.
6. Added a "missing" condenser? <---I'm not sure why the old condenser wasn't inside the distributor, but it just wasn't there???
7. I have checked and rechecked the resistance as well as the voltage coming out of the coil. Voltage out with ignition key turned to the "on" position is 11.50v. Resistance on primary and secondary coils were all well within manufacturers specs.
8. I have lined up TDC with the #1 point and rotor inside the distributor as close as possible. I have even manually turned the distributor slowly while my wife turned the ignition on, in an attempt to get the engine to fire up.
9. All cylinders have acceptable compressions: 130, 130, 135, 135 (manufacturer compression pressure 150psi, not bad for a 32 year old engine)
10. I have a timing light ready to go, but I need the engine to run first.

NOTE: The previous owner was a office mechanic, meaning he sat in a office all day and came home to "play" with this boat. Needless to say when I bought it, the spark plug wires were rearranged in correctly, the distributor rotor didn't point to the #1 spark plug when set to TDC, the condenser in the distributor is missing, the spark plug wires were mangled from being put on and off with pliers, distributor cap was worn out, the breaker points were corroded...etc.

11. The engine turns over strong, the fuel system is fine, however:


THE SPARK PLUGS AREN'T FIRING????

This thing is starting to make me feel stupid....Obviously, this is my first experience with a coil/distributor system.

My questions to everyone:

1. What am I missing or where do I go from here?
2. How can I check the breaker point is getting electricity?
3. How can I check the inside of the distributor/rotor is firing?

Or am I completely lost and in the wrong direction????

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

First check to see if you have 9volts or better at the coil +. Mercruiser uses a resister wire so the voltage shouldn't be a full 12 volts. Then with the points open and while holding the coil wire close to metal, short the points with the tip of a screwdriver between the arm and the lobe. The coil should arc if everything is working properly. If it arc's, then spin the engine with a remote start button and see if it still sparks. If not, it's your points. If it doesn't spark with the shorting the points then you probably have a bad coil

 

[alldodge]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Hello gentlemen,

This is my first post so please go gentle with me. I recently purchased a 1982 19ft bow rider with a Mercruiser 470, 224ci., inline 4 cyl., 170hp, engine (serial # 6038011). I'm not sure it matters but this has a Alpha One Outdrive (serial # 5999024). I have been battling out with this thing for two weeks now. Here's where I'm at in bullet statements for your ease

I have replaced with new the following:

1. Spark plugs (RBL-9Y / gapped to .035)
2. Spark plug wires (connectors greased with diode lube)
3. Distributor cap
4. Rotor
5. Breaker point manually gapped to .022" with feeler gauge. I am waiting on the delivery of my new "Dwell Meter" and plan on precisely setting the dwell angle upon its arrival.
6. Added a "missing" condenser? <---I'm not sure why the old condenser wasn't inside the distributor, but it just wasn't there???
7. I have checked and rechecked the resistance as well as the voltage coming out of the coil. Voltage out with ignition key turned to the "on" position is 11.50v. Resistance on primary and secondary coils were all well within manufacturers specs.
8. I have lined up TDC with the #1 point and rotor inside the distributor as close as possible. I have even manually turned the distributor slowly while my wife turned the ignition on, in an attempt to get the engine to fire up.
9. All cylinders have acceptable compressions: 130, 130, 135, 135 (manufacturer compression pressure 150psi, not bad for a 32 year old engine)
10. I have a timing light ready to go, but I need the engine to run first.

NOTE: The previous owner was a office mechanic, meaning he sat in a office all day and came home to "play" with this boat. Needless to say when I bought it, the spark plug wires were rearranged in correctly, the distributor rotor didn't point to the #1 spark plug when set to TDC, the condenser in the distributor is missing, the spark plug wires were mangled from being put on and off with pliers, distributor cap was worn out, the breaker points were corroded...etc.

11. The engine turns over strong, the fuel system is fine, however:


THE SPARK PLUGS AREN'T FIRING????

This thing is starting to make me feel stupid....Obviously, this is my first experience with a coil/distributor system.

My questions to everyone:

1. What am I missing or where do I go from here?
2. How can I check the breaker point is getting electricity?
3. How can I check the inside of the distributor/rotor is firing?

Or am I completely lost and in the wrong direction????

:welcome: to iboats

Have a look here in Dons Adults only section http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser...oubleshoot-points-ignition-system-335407.html

When the key is turned to ON the coil should get 12V through a ballast resistor or resistor wire. When the key is turned to START the resistor is bypassed and the coil gets full 12V. The negative side of the coil goes to the points. After reading through the above link you should be able to troubleshoot your system. If not let us know.

 

[Pink Floyd]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Thanks guys for the great advice and the link to the thread... I have some work to do today!

I really appreciate the information.

I will get back to you later today to let you know what I found/or fixed...

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Alldodge is on the right track. First thing to check is the voltages. When running the coil gets voltage from the purple resistance wire that goes from the electric choke on the carb to the coil +, the voltage is reduced by the wire to about 9 volts or so. During starting the coil gets its voltage from a wire going down to the slave solenoid on the side of the block, which feeds full battery voltage to the coil +. So do this, turn key to run and check the voltage, then turn to start while measuring the voltage, should read battery voltage. If you get no voltage during start, probably need a new slave. Another thing to try is run a wire directly from the battery to the coil + and give it a try. Good luck.

 

[Pink Floyd]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Ok gentlemen,

Here's where I'm at:

1. I tested the coil as recommended...it's working perfectly! ie: I used a screwdriver to short the points with the key "on"...strong spark / I had my wife turn the key to start to check the points...also strong spark.
2. With the key on the + terminal read 11.50v / - terminal read 11.50v / and top terminal cable read 11.50v (all with minor +/- .01 fluctuations)
3. I disconnected the grey wire from the - terminal on the coil and still had a strong spark. Both with the key in "on" and "start" positions. That tells me that it's not the tachometer.

I'm back to the distributor...

Could someone send a link to a forum or instruct me on the proper distributor set up...

Here's what I have done:
1. I installed brand new points (gapped to .022" using a feeler gauge), new rotor, new cap, and a new condenser (previously not installed and missing???). <--- All these parts came in a new "tune-up" kit.
2. I had to pull the distributor shaft up a little to turn it, to properly line up the rotor with the #1 terminal on the distributor cap, while the timing marks were set to TDC. (I'm not 100% sure that was the right thing to do, but it seemed right to me in order to get them to line up)
3. I pulled the #2 spark plug, reconnected to lead and held it close to a grounding point on the engine... I didn't see any spark??? (I have ordered a spark tester but it hasn't arrived yet)

Any suggestions?

And let me say again...Thank you!

 

[alldodge]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Pull the coil wire off the distributer and hold it close to the engine block and away from the carb. Crank the engine and see it your getting spark.

 

[Pink Floyd]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Pull the coil wire off the distributer and hold it close to the engine block and away from the carb. Crank the engine and see it your getting spark.

I did that, it sparked strong.

 

[alldodge]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

I did that, it sparked strong.

OK now I'm scratching my head real hard now. You get strong spark on the coil wire, and no spark on the plug wire. The only thing in between the coil wire and the plug wire is the rotor. Do you have the correct rotor installed for your cap? If you could post a pic of the cap and rotor that could help

 

[Maclin]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Does the engine turn over evenly and strong?

Sounds like the distributor may not be clocked properly still, maybe 180 degress out, but try the spark plug test again if you are game (most likely to get bit this way!). But make sure you touch the threads or outer electrode to engine block or suitable ground. Try it with a brand new spark plug first. Also observe the intensity of the spark, blue is hot and yellow is weak.

Are you positive you have fuel delivery all the way to the cylinders? The spark plugs will be wet with fuel if they are not firing and there is fuel delivery. Wet-fouling can also "short" the spark voltage around the electrodes and it will not fire.

Also if the spark is not delivered at the right time, crosses wires, etc. You may have that all sorted but the distrubutor could be clocked exactly 180 degress out. The spark plugs would get spark voltage and may even bridge their gap but if this happens at exactly the "wrong" time (no air-fuel mix to ignite) then when you pull one out to take a look it will appear that they are not firing. Usually you will hear some small explosion(s) out the exhaust in this condition.

 

[Maclin]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

I like Alldodge's take on the rotor also, could be mismatch between rotor and cap.

 

[alldodge]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

2. I had to pull the distributor shaft up a little to turn it, to properly line up the rotor with the #1 terminal on the distributor cap, while the timing marks were set to TDC. (I'm not 100% sure that was the right thing to do, but it seemed right to me in order to get them to line up))[/I]

Just noticed something; you pulled the distributer up and had to turn it. While you could be off 180 degrees this would not cause you to not have spark. It could however cause the distributer to not turn if it is not fully seated. Does the distributer shaft turn when cranking?

 

[thumpar]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Have you actually pulled a spark plug to check for spark? Ground it out and crank the engine. Be careful to not be in the path. It sounds like someone messed with the wiring. You should not get full voltage to the coil in the run position.

 

[Pink Floyd]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Ok I apologize for the delay,

I put everything back to together and pulled it out of the garage to attempt to start. It originally just turned over with nothing. I then loosened the tension (while still leaving tension) on the distributor retaining bolt and made minor turns to attempt to find the sweet spot. After about a dozen starting attempts I think I found a happy starting point for the distributor. The engine tried to catch a few times but would hit a compression zone and stop (thus letting the start clutch fall off).

So I stopped and pulled the plugs: Attached is photo.

These are in order 1,2,3,4

#1 - medium soot, dry
#2 - heavily soot, dry
#3 - medium soot, wet
#4 - light soot, wet

Should I clean them and try again?

*note: this boat has been sitting for about 9 months, I drained all the old fuel, and even replaced the fuel line, however I'm sure there was a little old fuel left in the filter, carburetor bowls...etc.

Thoughts?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Make sure you are on TDC COMPRESSION stroke. If you are on TDC exhaust you will be waaaaa off on the distributor. Sounds like that is where you are. Remember the rotor turns once for every TWO revolutions of the crank.

 

[old islander]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

I agree with stonyloam. It sounds like your 180 degrees off. If you remove the valve cover, Where are the valves on number one when number one is sparking? You should be on the base circle of the cam, so both valves should be closed.

 

[Pink Floyd]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Ok, I'm 180 degrees off.

1. Pulled the valve cover and found TDC per the valves and piston position.
2. Rotor is 180 degrees in wrong direction.
3. Now I have valve cover that I can't put back on because the old gasket disintegrated upon removal

Any recommendations on where to order a gasket, also any suggestions on what else I should order while I'm ordering... (Oops, just found out that I can buy it from this website...cool)

It looks like it's going to be a few days until I get the gasket...

Everyone's help is great though...I love this site!

 

[thumpar]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

The head is a Ford 460 head an I would think the valve cover gasket from one would be the same.

 

[alldodge]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Ok, I'm 180 degrees off.

1. Pulled the valve cover and found TDC per the valves and piston position.
2. Rotor is 180 degrees in wrong direction.
3. Now I have valve cover that I can't put back on because the old gasket disintegrated upon removal

Any recommendations on where to order a gasket, also any suggestions on what else I should order while I'm ordering... (Oops, just found out that I can buy it from this website...cool)

It looks like it's going to be a few days until I get the gasket...

Everyone's help is great though...I love this site!

You could put the valve cover on for start and test purposes and replace the gasket later. Clean the plugs, turn the distributer to TDC and crank it over. If it fires up set the timing. If it still won't fire, try starting fluid. If it still won't start replace the plugs and try again.

Iboats has gaskets for your boat

 

[MikDee]

Re: 1982 Mercruiser 470 "no spark"

Is your distributor shaft, & rotor loose? Can you spin it either way easily by hand? Or, possibly does it spring back on it's own (possible spring, & weight, spark advance?).