1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

[Syrus54]

Alrighty, I bought myself a Rare, or UnPopular, 1977 GM Ranger 17' Boat (my 1st boat) with a spun coupler. It MAY or MAY NOT have been sitting in a field for 13 years, which is where I found it, un-covered with bees nests everywhere. :facepalm: It has a 224ci Mercruiser 470 pre-alpha setup.

Bought a new coupler, bolted the engine back in, new battery, wired it all up, and I've only got 2 problems so far (not bad for my FIRST boat):

1. Trim hydraulics will not activate. I push the switch up: Nothing. Down: Again, Nada. I may or may not have everything hooked up correctly, but a test-light confirms that the switch IS getting power. I even repleaced the switch. Only 1 wire I'm 'IFFY' about. I have found all kinds of wiring diagrams, and they all show '2' solenoids, but I only have 1. Is this an issue? Do I need '2'?

2. It will crank (loudly, and kinda slowly), but refuses to fire. I checked the distributor: No Spark. I pulled a spark plug, again, No Spark. I pulled the air filter: Lots of dirt. Cleaned that out (obviously). I replaced the Distributor Cap, and am about to replace the condensor and points.

Can anyone recommend any cheap solutions as-to-what may be the underlying cause of my misfortunes? Thanks

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I will post high-res pics as soon as I can

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Welcome to the forum!! There is a wiring schematic for the single solenoid set up.

If you want to test just the trim motor to see if it works, then use a jumper wire to the (+) on the battery to either the green or blue wires to the motor itself, (but not both at the same time), blue is up and green is down. You will also have to ensure the black is grounded well.



Putting in the new points and the condenser in her should correct the spark.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Yeah, new points is where to start.

 

[1977 SILVERLINE]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Is your trim a 3 button system (in, out, and trailer)?

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

I have a button toggle switch for the trim: middle, up, and down. I assume middle is off, up is up, and down is down. I have no idea what the trailer button would be for, or even if i had it.

Anyway, here's the pics:

Original: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5538/9233999628_7d84d10b9d_o_d.jpg

The Gas gauge and amp meter work (unknown about the others).

Original: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2870/9231217535_d0b3164f82_o_d.jpg

I dont know what "GLIDE", "ROOM", "IN", or "OUT" means... it looks like the trim only goes "UP & DOWN", but the original switch only had 2 arrows on it. (up & down). And that's the ONLY switch, and it's connected to the trim hydraulic motor.

Original: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7324/9231217545_4c7ba75c5d_o_d.jpg

You'll notice the Socket Wrench extension sticking out of the floor, at the front engine mount (temporary, until I get a bolt to replace it). I'm also wondering about the battery ground cable. See it on the side-rear of the engine? it was 1st connected 1 blot back (toward the rear), but it was throwing sparks after replacing the Condensor and Points. So I moved it 1 forward, which is where I THINK it belongs.

Original: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5467/9233998580_e866f57bb2_o_d.jpg

You'll see here, the #1 spark plug is pulled, to check for spark. Which is Non-Existant, even after replacing the Points and Condensor.

Original: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5459/9231216221_07486bc822_o_d.jpg

Good front view, to show you how I have it all set up.

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Original: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3792/9233997440_954d4f1f8b_o_d.jpg

Here, you can see the NEW distributor cap, and the replacement coil (which is from a 4cyl 22re toyota pickup - which SHOULD still be good).

Original: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/9231214429_692e191cf4_o_d.jpg

Here, you'll see the Jack holding my boat off the ground. (I couldnt hook the out drive up, until it was off the ground) - And I can put it back on the ground until the trim is functioning, or else I'll be cutting a groove down the highway, using the outdrive.

Original: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/9231215365_97aa21cbe3_o_d.jpg

And here's the trim motor. As far as I can tell, i'm only missing that 1 wire. (RED). I cant figure out where it goes ! ! ! I assume the Circuit Breaker, but WHICH SIDE ? ? ?

Original: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2816/9233994560_b015c93eac_o_d.jpg

THIS RED WIRE is the one I'm talking about (coming from the TRIM motor solenoid).

Original: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/9233995902_03404e1945_o_d.jpg

Original: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2890/9233995152_d58000e5e2_o_d.jpg

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Can anyone see if I have any wires crossed? Anything hooked up wrong?

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

! ! ! IT RUNS ! ! !

My cousing came over, found out I had the black wire from the distributor in the wrong place. It WAS going to a ground on the engine (which i ASSUMED was correct) - (Black=Ground), but it went to the NEG of the Coil instead. Took half an hour of cranking, but it finally ran at idle. 1st for 1/2 minute, then for a full minute. But then it dies. Does that sound GOOD, or still an issue there?

Mabey re-build the Carb?

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Great! Couple of things to try, check thefilter on the fuel pump and the one on the inlet for the carb #8 here http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...g&inbr=1592&bnbr=40&bdesc=CARBURETOR+ASSEMBLY. If it is a Mercarb (single idle mixture screw on base of carb) try turning the mixture screw in until it lightly seats, then back out 1 1/4 turns. Should get you in the ballpark. Check the clear hose coming from the furl pump, should be noting in it, if it does have fuel in t that indicates a bad fuel pump diaphragm. You are off to a good start. Welcome to the 470 Club:facepalm:

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Is this what you're talking about?

Original: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2882/9236593552_ccefac2c3c_o_d.jpg

The black hose coming from the LEFT is a rubber hose, (fuel line) from the gas tank. The Black hose that goes from the (filter?) up to the Carb is METAL.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

The clear plastic tube in back. In case of a rupture of the diaphragm that hose carries the leaking fuel up into the carburetor rather than dumping it into the bilge (which would be a very bad thing) which is a difference between a marine fuel pump and a auto fuel pump. If there is no fuel in that line that is a good thing.

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Here's a video of it running to YouTube. CLICK HERE

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I checked the clear tube: No Fuel. It did, however, break into 3 pieces as I tried to remove it... lol
Not very flexible.

Have to replace it (it's a 14" long hose)

Also, I ran the RED wire from the trim straight to the battery, Still Nothing.

Any ideas?

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

OK, I think I diagnosed my problem, after looking at the Diagram provided by Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1:

I pulled the OLD trim switch, and saw it only had 3 wires hooked up. Assuming THIS is how it's intended to be installed (which is contradictory to the Diagram) then I could simply buy an On/Off/On 3-way switch to replace it (assuming it was a Bad Switch). So that's what I did. 3 wires going to the new 3-way switch. Trim still wasnt working.

So, upon inspecting the Diagram, and the OLD switch, I notice the Diagram shows 6 wires, the Old switch has 5 wires, the NEW switch has 3. So how the hell do I hook this thing up?

Old Switch:

The Black wire is #1, and Green is #5 (according to the #s on the switch).

Where do these wires connect to?

I DO use ALL 5 wires, right? Or do I need to buy a new switch with 6 wires?

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I assume (in the diagram) that the switch shown is one that has a TRAILER SWITCH, correct?
I dont think I have that.

So, anyone know how to hook this all up, using just an on/off/on switch? (3 wires)

the 3 wires the old switch were hooked into were also GREEN, RED, and BLACK.
The 2 white ones werent hooked up.

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

..Well... I guess I'm the only one posting in this thread now... sooo:

1. I took the carb apart: Nothing wrong with it. Bought a rebuild kit, autoparts guy sold me wrong kit, so I refunded, said screw it, reassembled, put back on engine.

2. Took starter down, guy wanted me to buy NEW one, even though THIS one still works. I made him just CLEAN and replace the bushes, etc... in the old one. Re-installed it, works much better. Spins faster, all that....

3. Ran the engine for a few mins, Temp Gauge works, just oil doesnt, and not sure about TRIM gauge, until I can get the trim to go up/down.

So, all-in-all, engine is flawless (for an engine that sat in a field, UNCOVERED for 13 years...) that is...

 

[wrestling coach]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Just a suggestion. Get a series 27 marine cranking battery. It will spin that 470 faster and give you a quicker start.

Dennis

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

OK that other switch on the dash is now gone right? If that old switch is the original (and only switch) it should have three functions: in (down), out (up) and trailer. Check that when you push the up arrow, does it go in and stops, and if you push harder does the switch go farther to a second stop? that second stop would be trailer. trying to figure it out.

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

No, it's just an UP/DOWN switch. No extra functions. No 2-stages to the button being pressed or anything.

Why it has 5 wires for only 2 buttons: You got me...

 

[bonzoscott]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

No expert, but I once revived a 3.0 and remember I had to get the specific "Merc Carb" kit for $75! Carb needs a thorough cleaning and even if perfect, it still idled a little rough.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

No, it's just an UP/DOWN switch. No extra functions. No 2-stages to the button being pressed or anything.

Why it has 5 wires for only 2 buttons: You got me...

Does the up raise the outdrive all the way up?

 

[Syrus54]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

the button does NOTHING.

No sound from the solenoid, no movement from the hydraulics, NOTHING.

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: 1977 Mercruiser 470 Problems - Please Help

Jump the motor itself it rule out a bad motor. You have a green wire, blue wire and most likely a black wire. Green is for down and blue is up, Run a jumper wire off the (+) battery to both the green and blue (But One At A Time)... to confirm the motor works . The motor and the solenoid both need a good (-)"ground" to work as well.

Some solenoids "ground" thru their body, and some need (-) "ground" on one of the terminals to work.