2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Problem

[batmandj38]

Hi,

Forgive me if this topic has been covered before. Last week I had my boat serviced for the summer season by a reputable marine mechanic here in the Bay Area. The service consisted of a compression check, which was good, replaced spark plugs using NGK BPR6EFS plugs, new cap and rotor, new spark plug wires, fuel filter check, which was fine, timing check, lower unit service including replacing the gear lube and water pump impeller, installing a new OEM propeller, installing an hour meter, and a trailer service and check. The boat is assumed to have no more than 50 to 100 hours on it as I am the second owner and it is in excellent condition.

I winterized it myself last October by filling the fuel tank, adding fuel stable, flushing my cooling system with anti freeze, and fogging my carb. Now the problem. So I took the boat out the day after my service, in freshwater (never salt) and 45 minutes in, my engine started to act like it was out of gas, then died. I looked physically at the tank, and it was half full. I phoned my mechanic and we did some trouble shooting. Final solution, put in neutral, wide open throttle for a minute, then pump and try starting it (flood the carb). It worked, it started up and ran fine.

My mechanic advised to go put fresh gas in, as he suspected fuel contamination or the alcohol separation from the gasoline. So after putting fresh premium gasoline in, everything seemed fine. Operating temp normal, oil pressure normal. We commenced to continue pulling and "Whipping" a tube. Heres the problem, only in hard right turns, Like steering wheel almost full right, and with wide open throttle, the rpm would dip way low for 1 to 2 seconds, as if i had pulled the throttle down to neutral then back to full wide open throttle. It did this almost every time we did a hard right turn. It did not do this in hard left turns with wide open throttle. Just right turns, like the fuel was being forced by the g force all the way to the left, and air was getting sucked into my line, yet, I have a full tank of gas. So, what is the problem? My boat was not behaving this way last summer under similar conditions.

My mechanic recommends I go out a few more times, with fresh gasoline each time and see if the problem persists. If it does, I will bring the boat back to him and let him figure it out. If the problem goes away, than my guess is that it was something in the fuel. Now I am not a mechanic, but I do most of my own auto work and minimal boat maintenance, i. e. oil change, lower unit lube change, battery, etc. He also thinks it could be the prop? The prop I put on is the exact model number and same diameter and pitch as the one I took off. Not aftermarket, so not sure why he would suspect that. Any suggestions? Truly appreciate any help, feedback. Thanks for reading...

Steven

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Based only on the symptom and not knowing any details about the construction of the boat;
Try this silly theory I just pull out of my southern hemisphere.

The fuel pickup tube is on the right side of the tank.
The Strainer on the bottom of the tank's Fuel Pickup tube has come off.
When the tank gets much below half full, the fuel pickup is no longer supplying fuel.
In a hard Right Turn, the fuel sloshes to the left side of the tank and no longer supplies fuel.
Does the problem go away when the tank is Full, Really Full?

Prop? A Spun prop hub causes the boat to lose thrust but with the prop Over-Revving!! ??

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Based only on the symptom and not knowing any details about the construction of the boat;
Try this silly theory I just pull out of my southern hemisphere.

The fuel pickup tube is on the right side of the tank.
The Strainer on the bottom of the tank's Fuel Pickup tube has come off.
When the tank gets much below half full, the fuel pickup is no longer supplying fuel.
In a hard Right Turn, the fuel sloshes to the left side of the tank and no longer supplies fuel.
Does the problem go away when the tank is Full, Really Full?

Prop? A Spun prop hub causes the boat to lose thrust but with the prop Over-Revving!! ??

I like the theory. However after I filled the tank, the right turn problem continued. The engine has not died out right yet since the first time it died as stated in the above post. So, no, the problem does not go away when the tank is full.
Regarding the prop, I figured it was not the case.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Ok that was a shot.
What I didn't like was that fuel in the line was going to take more than a few seconds to deplete the carb and kill it.

The right turn symptom is intriguing.

Look for an air leak in the fuel line near the fuel pump or filter.
The stress of the turn may be causing a hose crack to open up.
Was the filter changed?

Are we sure it is NOT an electrical/spark issue posing as a fuel issue?
How fast does it die and then recover?

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Ok that was a shot.
What I didn't like was that fuel in the line was going to take more than a few seconds to deplete the carb and kill it.

The right turn symptom is intriguing.

Look for an air leak in the fuel line near the fuel pump or filter.
The stress of the turn may be causing a hose crack to open up.
Was the filter changed?

Are we sure it is NOT an electrical/spark issue posing as a fuel issue?
How fast does it die and then recover?

My mechanic advises that he is pretty sure it is not an electrical issue. He thinks the alcohol separated from the fuel. He says I should go out in the boat a few more times to on fresh tanks of gas to see if the problem persists. If so, then bring the boat to him. He thinks water is not the case, as if it was, my engine would be running rough and or backfiring. It is doing neither. The engine only died the one time, as stated in the original post. Now, only in right turns, and i mean steering wheel hard over right with wide open throttle, the rpms will be where they should be then, for about a second, they decrease to almost idle, then as soon as they decreased they rev back to wide open throttle. The whole process takes 1 to 2 seconds max. And it is random, but it usually only happens once per hard right turn. My mechanic does not think its the carb, but, we will narrow it down after I go out a few times on a few tanks of gas. In the meantime, one, am I safe in taking the vessel out? To test? Two, if there is water in my tank, can I buy some type of additive that will get the water out, or pass it thru my system without damaging it? What do you guys think?

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Interesting Symptom.

The alcohol in the new gas will re-dissolve any water that may be in the fuel.

If you want to speed up the process add a Gasoline Dryer, Is is essentially a bottle of Isopropyl alcohol.
Isopropyl dissolves more water than even the Ethanol already in the fuel.
See, Alcohol in the fuel is a good thing!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

If the motor keeps bringing you back, just don't go TOO far.
The best thing that could happen at this point is a total failure. Then you will know what it is.

When you loose power....

Is it a smooth loose like it just throttled back?
A total loss like the fuel or spark are gone?
A rough loss like spark misfiring or fuel flooding? Electric Choke Engaging?

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Interesting Symptom.

The alcohol in the new gas will re-dissolve any water that may be in the fuel.

If you want to speed up the process add a Gasoline Dryer, Is is essentially a bottle of Isopropyl alcohol.
Isopropyl dissolves more water than even the Ethanol already in the fuel.
See, Alcohol in the fuel is a good thing!

Thank you guys for the feedback. As of now, since I am NOT a mechanic, I am just going to inspect the fuel lines, filter, anti siphon valve, and vent. Then, either tomorrow or next WED (due to work) I will take the boat out and run it under the same conditions in which the problem occurred. I do not know how to disconnect my fuel line from the tank. I don't really want to be messing with that stuff either unless you guys say, man, easy, super easy to do. I do most of my own auto work, ie brakes, oil change, tranny fluid change, front diff fluid change, rear diff fluid change, transfer case fluid change, spark plug change, belt change, battery change, etc. I'm sure on my boat its easy, and I don't like forking over $$$ to a mechanic to do it, but, at least they (and you guys) know what they are doing when it comes to wrenching on my vessel. My boss also recommended HEET. Is it safe to use in my engine?

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

If the motor keeps bringing you back, just don't go TOO far.
The best thing that could happen at this point is a total failure. Then you will know what it is.

When you loose power....

Is it a smooth loose like it just throttled back?
A total loss like the fuel or spark are gone?
A rough loss like spark misfiring or fuel flooding? Electric Choke Engaging?

When I loose power, its as if someone pulled the throttle all the way to neutral, then back to wide open throttle. The whole process takes 1 to 2 seconds max. The feeling in the vessel is as if we had hit a bump or a slight jolt from the force of wide open throttle going to neutral then back. Does this make sense? Or, imagine you have wide open throttle, then, there is a brief hiccup, then the throttle goes back to normal. Again, as stated above, its random, and only in full wheel over, wide open throttle right turns.

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

I think there are some debris that got loose in the carb over the winter. Maybe there's a slight blockage preventing the bowl from filling quickly enough and the bogging you have is a lean situation which is exacerbated when turning one direction. You might want to try a quick cleaning of the carburetor and then see if the issue reoccurs.

Or you could just keep it to WOT going the other way. That must be quite a ride for the person tubing.

You may be able to clear it up by running a few tanks of fresh gas through it.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

I think there are some debris that got loose in the carb over the winter. Maybe there's a slight blockage preventing the bowl from filling quickly enough and the bogging you have is a lean situation which is exacerbated when turning one direction. You might want to try a quick cleaning of the carburetor and then see if the issue reoccurs.

Or you could just keep it to WOT going the other way. That must be quite a ride for the person tubing.

You may be able to clear it up by running a few tanks of fresh gas through it.

+1 ^^^

This may make the most sense.

You get a blockage in the carb.
The the lean condition causes a loss of power.
The sudden deceleration and/or loss of vacuum clears the blockage.
Away you go again!
Cycle repeats.

Drain the Carb Bowl into a clean White paper towel.
Spray all the passages with Carb Cleaner.
See what happens.

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Ok, so heres the latest. First, I know it sounds easy, but im not sure how comfortable I would be doing that. Today I Replaced the fuel filter, paper type (water separator?). Also disconnected the fuel line from the carb and cleaned the screen. While the flame arrestor was off I sprayed some carb cleaner into the carb, or onto the venturi and some other holes being that I did not disassemble the carb. I also filled the tank, and added some Startron ethanol gas additive treatment. Took the boat out, and, same thing. The right turn problem continues. I even filmed it on my galaxy s3, the video is uploading now, as soon as its done I will post it here so you can see what I mean. Thanks again everyone for the feedback.

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

This is from yesterday. In the right turn, you can clearly see and hear what I am talking about. The left turn, is normal reduction of speed and rpm without me touching the throttle to compensate. Normal to me. It's the right turns that are the problem. Let me know what you guys think. Hopefully the video puts things into perspective.

 

[RCAnderson]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

That does not sound like a fuel problem to me, I think it dies too quickly, and is way too repeatable. From the original post, it seems like the only thing that was added was the hour meter. I imagine that the meter is wired into the ignition system so that it only shows running hours, instead of just 'key on' hours. I would be looking for a loose connection somewhere in that circuit, or look at whatever steering linkage you may have, and see if the linkage is rubbing any wires when the helm is hard over.

If it is a fuel problem, I think it would be the float in the carb. Perhaps the hard right turn is causing the float to move to the closed position, and not letting any more fuel into the float bowl. Maybe the float has become saturated with gas and isn't floating properly anymore. I don't think this is very likely, however, as the engine should still run for the duration of that turn with what fuel is in the float bowl, and if your float was saturated, you would be flooding all the time.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Agree.
If it is fuel problem it is in the bowl feeding the venturi.
Anything farther upstream would take a few seconds to lean out.
Also no lean rev-up before it dies. Recovers instantly.

An electrical issue is very possible.
I overlooked the Hour Meter Install; Good Call!
Many tap into the Points. Some, sample the spark.

If you crank it quickly hard over to the right at idle, in gear and in neutral; What happens?

 

[zealer]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Here is something you might find particularly interesting. This was in the instructions of a Quicksilver carb rebuild kit.

 

[RCAnderson]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Thatis interesting.....

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

Ok guys, thanks for all the info so far. I have been away for about a week as I had a death in the family. First off, the above pic you posted about the Quicksilver Kit is Very Interesting to say the least. So, here's where we stand. Since I last posted the video and progress, one thing was noted. On top of my Flame Arrestor, I was looking at the specs and noticed that my WOT band is 4400-4800. When I was doing the tests the day I took the video, my WOT band was 5000-5200rpm. I told this to my mechanic, and he thinks the governor or rpm regulator is kicking in when in the hard right turn. He also said the prop I have, 14.5 x 19P, is to small for the boat.

Note, when I bought the boat last summer, it had the same size prop on it and no issues. Then, when I did the service I spoke of in the beginning of this thread, I had my mechanic put on a replacement prop, as my old one had a few nicks in it. It is the same model number, serial number, and brand as the one that I was replacing. 14.5 x 19p. So, my mechanic said to go with the 14.5 x 21p, to get the WOT rpm band down to where it should be. He does not think the prop is the issue, but wants to see what happens with the boat once I have the 21p prop on my boat. It should be arriving here in a week and a half as I have sent the one I just put on back to where I bought it.

I also checked the steering linkage, to see if when the steering wheel was turned all the way to the right, if any wires were rubbing against it. I did not notice any. Also checked the Hour Meter wiring, and there do not appear to be any issues. Regarding the Quicksilver posted pic above, my mechanic does not think that is the issue because my Carburetor is the factory original one, not a quicksilver replacement. It is interesting though. So, as of now, I'm waiting for the new propeller to arrive here. Then I will take the boat out with new gas, and see what happens. It's coming down to the Carburetor bowl or float theory. Not really buying the propeller theory but its worth a shot.

 

[UNSUREBOATGUY]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

I just rebuilt the carb on my '87 3.0 and noticed the info about the needle and seat. As I read your issue, that came to mind right away, but being far from an expert and not knowing what carb you have (and assuming that the manufacturer had figured out that issue between 1987 and 2005), I figured it didn't really apply. If you have a version of the mercarb (or a close cousin-I understand they are very similar-again no expert) similar to what is on my boat, the symptoms certainly seem to fit. Perhaps there is info in the carb rebuild section of the Mercruiser manual for your engine that would shed some light on this.

 

[batmandj38]

Re: 2005 Bayliner 175 / Mercruiser 3.0L 135hp Alpha One Stern Drive High RPM Fuel Pro

PROP UPDATE:

Hey guys. So, here is an interesting update. Since my last update here, I have taken the boat out with the original prop on it, 14.5x19p. It has a few chips in it, but, it is the prop that was on the boat when I bought it. Interesting enough, the problem decreased by 90%. I had 4 people in the boat, and with similar conditions, I was towing a tube and in right turns, WOT, there was no longer a cut out of my engine. Instead, the RPM decreased by 100 or 200 RPM's max. Now I'm confused. If it's the carb, wouldn't the symptoms continue? My replacement prop has since arrived. Mercury 14.25 by 21p. So my diameter will decrease by 0.25 and my pitch will increase by 2, to get my WOT RPM where it should be. I will put the new prop on today, and if I get around to it test the boat next week or the week after. Your thoughts on this? I have a funny feeling that the new prop will put my WOT band where it should be, but I fear the right turn problem will re surface. If the problem does not resurface, funny as it sounds but that would tell me the prop was the issue.