Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

a1nowell

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I have a M/C 470 that was converted to a Pertronix ignition system in the distributor, but a regular coil. This spring I started having coil problems and it has eaten 2 regular coils this boating season. I have gotten the Pertronix Flame Thrower epoxy coil to install but haven't installed it as of yet. I am not sure if I still need the wire (purple I think) that runs from the positve on the coil to the carb choke? Anything else I need to know or check would be helpful.

Thanks,
Larry
 

Fishermark

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Wherever you get your power, it will need the full 12v - not through the original resistance wire. Wire it like this:

pertronixwiringdiagram.jpg
 

stonyloam

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Take the original purple resistance wire off the coil, (I taped the end and just rolled it up out of the way), then solder splice a new stranded wire into the purple choke wire and run it to the coil +. I used liquid tape on the splice to protect it. I am assuming you have the Flamethrower II coil (45111), and the Ignitor II (91146A)
 

a1nowell

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Terry,
No, I have the Ignitor I ignition system and my new coil is the Flame Thrower Epoxy #40611.. Do I still need the resitor wire?????

Thanks,

larry
 

stonyloam

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

I am pretty familiar with wiring the Ignitor II and the flamethrower II, the Original Ignitor and Flamethrower not so much. That being said as I understand it since the 40611 is a 3 ohm coil (internal resistor) you do not need the resistor wire and you wire 12V directly to the coil as I stated above, and you would connect the red Ignitor wire to the coil + so that it gets the full 12V. If you had the 1.5 ohm coil you would still need the resistor wire. You might check with Petronix to make sure.
 

wrestling coach

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

I converted my'82 470 this past spring with the Ignitor (1146a) and a Flamethrower 40,000 volt coil. As Terry suggests identify and remove the RESISTANCE wire coming from your choke + at your coil and tape it off. Up at the choke + spade the resistance wire on mine was a heavy solid silver wire. Because of the fading of the old wires colors it was easiest for me to identify by cutting back a small amount of insulation to be sure. I then cut back some insulation on the copper stranded that remained at the choke + spade and I soldered in a new wire of my making of #16 stranded copper. Ran that down to the coil + and put a ring terminal on there. That gives you the full time 12v the Pertronix Ignitor and Flame Thrower needs while the ignition key is in the run position while your engine is running. In your original wiring you have a full time 12v wire that works only when you have the ignition switch in the cranking position. When you release the key the new wire from your choke + takes over. WITH THE IGNITOR 1146A YOU CANNOT LEAVE YOUR KEY IN THE ON POSITION WITHOUT THE ENGINE RUNNING. Be sure your ignition key is in the off position if your engine stalls for example.

Dennis
 

a1nowell

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Terry & Dennis and all else,

I went to the boat today to install my new Flamethrower coil. Before I started I tested the voltage on the old coil with the key on and it read around 8.75 volts. I removed the old coil and installed the Flamethrower, two wires to the negative side four on the positive. The resistor wire which measured the 8.75 volts I cut and taped it off after cutting harness tape it seemed to be pink. I went then to the choke connection that had two wires. After cutting harness tape these two wires were purple and the other was the same pink wire going to the coil that I cut. I went ahead and cut the pink wire at the choke connection. The purple wire to the choke connection measured a little over 12 volts with the key on. I did as Dennis suggested and spliced into the purple wire ahead of the choke connection. When tested the purple wire and my new spliced wire read 12+ volts with the key on but when I connected the choke connector to the choke my voltage drops to 10.14 volts. I don't understand the voltage drop. The boat starts and seems to run fine on muffs but I still do not understand the voltage drop.

PS
I tried eliminating the new spliced wire but the boat would start but quit the moment you released the key from the start position, with the spliced wire connected from the choke wire to the + side of the coil the boat started wnd ran fine after the key was released.

Any thoughts,

Larry
 

stonyloam

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

when I connected the choke connector to the choke my voltage drops to 10.14 volts.

When you connected the wire to the choke, the choke would have begun drawing current through the choke heating element, could account for the voltage drop. The reason it would start and die is that while it was cranking it was getting voltage from the slave solenoid (designed to bypass resistor wire when starting). When the key returns to run that circuit opens, and you get current to the coil through the wire spliced to the choke wire. Sounds like you are good to go.
BTW the "pink" wire was purple at one time, time and heat probably caused it to change hue.
 

a1nowell

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Thanks Terry,

I felt I was on the right track but a little reassurance always helps.

Thanks Dennis for the spliced wire suggestion.

Thanks Forum
 

wrestling coach

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

It sounds correct to me. Did you make a solder connection at your choke wire? Get some liquid tape and seal that new solder connection up. Remember, don't leave your key in the "on" position without the engine running with this model Pertronix. It doesn't like this. One of those 4 wires at your coil comes from your starter slave for 12 volts to make starting easier with your old points set up as Terry has pointed out above. That's why it would run until you released the key. OK you are now the new expert on Pertronix 1146a intalls and wiring. Now go use your boat.

Dennis
 

generator12

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

When I discussed the voltage issue with Carl Dudash at Retro-Rockets (from whom I bought my Pertronix), he was emphatic that the system needs the full 12 volts. Thus, she works without the resistance wire and with an internally ballasted coil.
 

a1nowell

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

generator12,

I was concerned about the drop in voltage after the choke was hooked up so I called Pertronix's hot line and was told anything 9+ volts was OK.

Let me know if if otherwise.

Larry
 

a1nowell

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Update,
I had the boat on Lake LBJ this weekend and put about 12 hours driving on the new coil. I could not be more pleased. The engine starts faster and seems to have a bit more power. I should have matched the ignition to the Flamethrower coil along time ago.
 

natemoore

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

This thread should be helpful for your general understanding of Pertonix/alternator/coil/choke system and how it all interacts. May be more information than you actually need for your problem, but it was a good learning experience for me.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507183
 

natemoore

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

I am pretty familiar with wiring the Ignitor II and the flamethrower II, the Original Ignitor and Flamethrower not so much. That being said as I understand it since the 40611 is a 3 ohm coil (internal resistor) you do not need the resistor wire and you wire 12V directly to the coil as I stated above, and you would connect the red Ignitor wire to the coil + so that it gets the full 12V. If you had the 1.5 ohm coil you would still need the resistor wire. You might check with Petronix to make sure.

That's the way the Pertroix rep explained it to me when I did my conversion. My 470 jumps to life on about the second revolution after sitting for weeks. :)
 

wrestling coach

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Update,
I had the boat on Lake LBJ this weekend and put about 12 hours driving on the new coil. I could not be more pleased. The engine starts faster and seems to have a bit more power. I should have matched the ignition to the Flamethrower coil along time ago.
I love threads with happy endings. Likewise natemoore.

Dennis
 

a1nowell

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Re: Pertronix Flame Thrower Coil Installation Question on M/C 470

Thanks Nate & Coach,

I really appreciate this forum!

Larry
 
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