Mercruiser 140HP with EST ignition, EST total advance enough?

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fishrdan

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I have an EST ignition in my 73' 140HP Mercruiser and found something weird while looking at Mercruiser's distributor advance curve charts. The old points distributors have a total timing of around 33* while the EST only has a total timing of around 23*, (this includes initial timing). Several places that sell the EST say it's compatible with the 2.5L/3.0L (120/140HP) engines from 1967-2011, bit I'm thinking this has to be hurting the performance of older "points" engines as there is a LOT less total timing with the EST. Modern GM 4cyl engines have higher 9.25-1 compression, "vortec" head and probably other things to boost performance, so I'm guessing they can't handle the higher total timing of the older 8.5-1 low compression engines. But, what happens when the EST is used on the older engines that Mercruiser spec'd out with more total timing....

I was thinking of adding more initial timing to my EST to get the total timing closer to the points distributors, but the EST bumps timing to 12* at idle when taken out of base timing mode. I don't think I can set the EST's initial timing higher as it might have too much timing in the lower RPM's, and cause problems.

So what's your take on the timing difference between the 2 different ignitions? Do you think the EST is killing performance of my older 140HP Mercruiser? (Modern 87 octant fuel can't be so bad that Mercruiser had to retard total timing 10*.)

Points ignition
6* initial timing
25-29* distributor advance
31-35* total advance by 2000-2200RPM

EST ignition
1* initial timing (in base timing mode)
12-14* at idle (out of base timing mode)
another 10* distributor advance by 2800RPM
22-24* total advance by 2800RPM

(Points advance curve found in manual 2 and 10, EST advance curve from manuals 13 and 26.)
 

Don S

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Re: Mercruiser 140HP with EST ignition, EST total advance enough?

Merc and Volvo have both been using that module since the early 90's with no problems.
 

fishrdan

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Re: Mercruiser 140HP with EST ignition, EST total advance enough?

Oh yes, I understand that, and my old 140HP seems to run "OK" with the EST.

I'm just wondering if the EST isn't as well suited to the older GM 4cyl marine engines that Merc speced out for more total timing, as it is for the newer GM 4cyl marine engines that Merc speced out for less total timing... It just seems weird that the older engines timing curve is 6* at idle up to 33* at 2200RPM and the modern engine's timing curve is 12* at idle up to 23* at 2800RPM. More initial and less total with the EST???

I guess I could set the EST's total timing to something like 33*, see what the timing is at idle, and try a run to see if the engine rattles like a can of marbles. I probably wouldn't keep it at 33*, just try it there to see if the engine pings and go from there. Or advance it until the the engine pings on a run, then back off several degrees.

I don't necessarily want to play with fire, but if there is power to be made safely.....
 

fishrdan

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Re: Mercruiser 140HP with EST ignition, EST total advance enough?

Well, not much love for this thread but I found my "smoking gun", Mercruiser Service Bulleting 95-11...

There's a serial number break were Mercruiser went from 34-36* total advance down to 24-26* total advance on the 140HP/3.0L engines, other engines too. Not sure why, but it's probably due to better engine design (vortec?) not requiring (or being able to handle) that much timing.

I dug up another page showing what other engines use for base timing with the EST.

Delco EST Ignition System
DELCO IGNITION TIMING CHART

ENGINE___INITIAL TIMING____TOTAL TIMING
CID______@ 500 RPM________@ 4000 RPM

181______0o_____________24o (I think this is for the newer serial numbers in SB 95-11)
250______10o____________32o
262______2o_____________24o
305______8o_____________26o
350______8o_____________25o
454______12o____________30o
552______12o____________30o


I'm going to bump up the base timing to what the other engines use and see how the 140HP engine reacts, see if I get any rattling or pinging. Also see what the total timing is with the higher initial timing. I doubt I'll get to Mercruiser's spec'ed total timing for this old engine, but hoping to pick up some performance (without melting a piston).
 

Tycer

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Re: Mercruiser 140HP with EST ignition, EST total advance enough?

Well, not much love for this thread but I found my "smoking gun", Mercruiser Service Bulleting 95-11...

There's a serial number break were Mercruiser went from 34-36* total advance down to 24-26* total advance on the 140HP/3.0L engines, other engines too. Not sure why, but it's probably due to better engine design (vortec?) not requiring (or being able to handle) that much timing.

I dug up another page showing what other engines use for base timing with the EST.

Delco EST Ignition System
DELCO IGNITION TIMING CHART

ENGINE___INITIAL TIMING____TOTAL TIMING
CID______@ 500 RPM________@ 4000 RPM

181______0o_____________24o (I think this is for the newer serial numbers in SB 95-11)
250______10o____________32o
262______2o_____________24o
305______8o_____________26o
350______8o_____________25o
454______12o____________30o
552______12o____________30o


I'm going to bump up the base timing to what the other engines use and see how the 140HP engine reacts, see if I get any rattling or pinging. Also see what the total timing is with the higher initial timing. I doubt I'll get to Mercruiser's spec'ed total timing for this old engine, but hoping to pick up some performance (without melting a piston).

I’ve tried to get the forum to let me PM you the question to no avail, so I l’ll break the 120 day rule and ask:
what were your results advancing initial timing?
 

GA_Boater

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90 days, not 120. For sure not 7+ years. :mad:

Why PM? Start a thread so anyone with an EST on an older 4 cylinder M/C can see the question and answers. It defeats the purpose of an open forum to go private and exclude others who may be able to help.

Closed.
 
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