Blown Head Gasket

[sdoomaha]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I believe the risers are cooled by the lake water as well and then the water is expelled with the exhaust. Your risers would have never heated up beyond normal.

Not saying that you did overheat...or this is the cause of your problems, but if your gauge was slow to show temp and remained on the cold side, make sure your mechanic checks the thermostat. The gauge will raise slowly and slightly due to heat being conducted through the metal thermostat housing being in contact with the block...but my gauge never rose above 100. I'd hate to see the problem happen again after repairs because that was the initial problem and it was never properly checked out.

Interesting coincidence your gauge was reacting the same way.

I do agree the water getting into the engine while running seems a little odd for the issues being claimed.

Good luck, I hope you get it back together with minimal $$ out of your pocket.

 

[mark_fitzy]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

Thanks Mate
I will let you know the outcome

 

[mark_fitzy]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

Hi Guys

Well insurance has knocked the claim back saying the water got into the engine because it overheated and blew the head gasket.

This simply isnt true because the engine was running fine for four days AFTER I had found the water in the oil (after I left the plug out).

If the head gasket had blown and then let the water into the engine, wouldn't the boat have been running rough then? I believe I would not have been able to tow skiers etc9for four days) at high speed If the head gasket was blown, not without problems at least.!

I believe somehow when I left the plug out, the water go into the engine,(dont know how)mixed the oil thus creating sludge and slowly not lubricating the engine and then blowing the head gasket, which is when I heard noises coming from the motor and bad performance.

Whats your thoughts...looks like I still have a fight

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

...

Well insurance has knocked the claim back saying the water got into the engine because it overheated and blew the head gasket...

You are barking up the wrong tree, and fighting with the wrong people. This is NOT an insurance claim. It's a mechanical failure, period. Not covered under physical damage insurance policies.

The only thing to determine is who's fault the mechanical failure is. the rebuilder of the engine or the mechanic who installed it.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I think he means "warranty" not "insurance" TW.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I think he means "warranty" not "insurance" TW.

Proper terminology is important, then.

 

[mark_fitzy]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

No guys
I mean insurance, Insurance in australia does cover for problems that arise from submerging the boat eg Leaving plug out.

As the insurance company just installed the reconditioned motor in this boat 40 working hours ago, they are looking at the orginal repair "(Claim)may have not been fixed correctly or that I am correct, "the water some how got into the motor by leaving the bung. To much of a coincidence this all happened when I left the bung out.

Anyway guys Insurance are looking into it again because they beleive it cannot be wear and tear on a brand new reco motor.

I will post more when I find out

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

Leaving the plug out did not cause this.

There is something wrong with either the cylinder heads or the block itself.

 

[mark_fitzy]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

Still waiting on a new assessor to see the boat.

Hypothetically speaking if water got into the motor by lets say, my son poured water into the dipstick tube. Would water in the oil thicken up to a sludge after four days of running the motor Skiing etc and cause pressure in the motor for a head gasket to blow? Hypothetically speaking

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

Mark,


When you discovered that the bilge plug was out and you had water in the bilge, how did you know there was water in the bilge?

Also, did you immediately change the oil and when you did, could you tell how much water was in the oil? 1, 2, 3 ltrs etc...

You also said the engine started to sound like there was something wrong.....and you saw water on the floor.

If the water got up to the floor and you stopped it then, how "high" up the engine would that have been? Is the floor about even with the bottom of the exhaust manifolds?

I'm trying to visualize how high the water would have to get to actually get into the engine.


I still have a hard time believing water in the oil would cause an overheat and subsequent head gasket failure.... (although loss of lubrication can cause overheat......meaning that when you changed the oil/water mixture, you got mostly water and very little oil.....)

 

[mark_fitzy]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I know everyone finds it hard to believe the water got into the engine by the bung being left out, But I would really like to know how would the engine respond if the water did get in that way?


Hi HT32BSX115
In answer to your questions

I did not know I had left the plug out or that there was water in the bilge until I was trying to get the boat up on the plane, up and down the river I was trying to get it it up on the plane, I thought it was cold and was trying to warm it up. so imagine the bow up in the air the motor deeper into the water. I then drove it back to the bank to see what was wrong with the motor and discovered that there was water on the floor and realised the bung was left out

The engine didnt start to make noises until a month later when I went camping for a week and we were skiing , tubing etc and on the fourth day thats when it wouldnt even pull a skier, wouldnt get up on the plane and started to make noises, but remembering I found water in the oil before I went camping and just after I left the plug out when I partially submerged the boat.

On the day I left the bung out and the boat was now level and stopped, half of the engine was submerged in water.


How much water was in the oil? well it wasnt chocolate it was like milk and see through. I think I must have dropped about 10 litres or more that came out. I remembered when I checked the oil it was was near the top of the dipstick, thats when I got really worried

 

[achris]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I may have missed something here...

What is the sequence of events?

1. New engine
2. Left bung out. Filled engine with water.
3. Drained oil (and water) and refilled engine...
4. 40 hours after #2, engine 'blows head gasket'...

Have I got it right?

Effect of wet oil on the engine.... NOT a blown head gasket! I would expect to see more bottom end damage, main and bigend bearings, cam shaft bearings, but not a head gasket.

If it is an overheat caused by a failed thermostat, warranty!

1995 V6s has an alarm system (as standard) on low oil pressure, high engine temperature and low drive oil level.. (mine was 1994 and it had it) If the alarm wasn't operational, mechanics problem... warranty!

My 2c

Chris...........
(PM me)

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I know everyone finds it hard to believe the water got into the engine by the bung being left out, But I would really like to know how would the engine respond if the water did get in that way?

It would run fine, the oil would foam up, and ooze out the valve cover caps, if there was a lot of water in there. We had a boat that we left in the water uncovered, all the time. No automatic bilge pump, and it would get water into the oil pan all the time. The first time it did, we didn't know it. And we just started the boat and ran it. Milkshake in the oil, that's all. Let it sit a day, removed the oil pan plug, and the heavier water ran out first, and voila, we were good to go. We did it a lot. The ONLY thing the letting the water fill up with water would do is rust whatever it was in contact with. NOT BLOW A HEADGASKET!



With breather valves in the valve covers, there is NO WAY for "pressure" to build up. And besides, Headgaskets "blow" on the compression side, not the water side or the oil side of the system. The cylinder is the thing producing the pressure in an engine. It's what blows a weak headgasket, not the oil system or the cooling system.

It's just plainly simple, your cooling system pressure is less than 15psi, your oil pressure is 60psi max, but each cylinder produces a minimum 100psi! More like 135psi. What do you think will blow out a headgasket? Only one logical conclusion.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

water in the oil cannot contribute to head gasket failure.

A proper analysis of the head to block surface, and the head bolts would show what really happened.

Finding anyone with the knowledge to do that will not be highly probable, imo.
You can probably google something up about analyzing head gasket failures.

this looks good:
http://www.corteco-usa.com/TECH/PDFs/Corteco Failure Analysis.pdf

 

[JustJason]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I disagree to a point.

Oil is the primary engine coolant, not water.

The cylinder heads obviously get hot. It is the job of the oil to get sprayed all over the top of the cylinder head, absorb heat, and drain back into the pan.
If the oil has to much water in it, it's not going to absorb the heat as it drains back down into the pan. If you pumped out 10 liters of oil/water mix, the level may have been so high in the engine that oil/water mix was just sitting on top of the head and not draining at all.

Whenever you get water in the oil, even just a little bit, all sorts of gremlins are going to start manifesting themselves.

 

[mark_fitzy]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

Ah ok, I am understanding now.

Ok Well I didnt get any foam from the breather caps, but I did get alot of sludge in the rocker cover, remembering I did run it for four days with water in the oil before I had the head gasket problems.

So your saying when the head gasket blew after water got into the engine, that was a seperate incident, a coincidence.

So I am wondering what the knock would be, wasnt a loud knock, went louder the more I put the boat under load and that also happened at the same time as the head gasket blew. Maybe a bearing? Although there was no knock when the boat was on idle, even when reved it up , no knock, only when under load

I am wondering if I can tell the insurance company that I will pay for the head gasket as long as they pay for striping the engine down to clean it make sure there is no rust or any other problems that the water may have caused etc?

Oh one question , do you agree with me that if I had a blown head gasket, that I would have noticed something wrong, eg Motor not running welll,loss of power,wouldnt get skiers up etc?

Thanks for all your input thus far guys, you are giving me some great input, more then what I am getting from the mechanic and insurance company

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

If the oil has to much water in it, it's not going to absorb the heat as it drains back down into the pan.

water doesn't absorb heat?

 

[JustJason]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

water doesn't absorb heat?

It absorbs exactly 212F before it turns into vapor and wisks away. Problem is cylinder heads get alot hotter than 212F

 

[achris]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

It absorbs exactly 212F before it turns into vapor and wisks away. Problem is cylinder heads get alot hotter than 212F

And once it 'wisks' away, the only thing left to carry the heat away would be ........ oil

The main problem of water in the oil from a cooling viewpoint is that as the oil and water emulsify it also becomes aerated, that's the problem... Water conducts heat exceptionally well (that's why it's used as a coolant), but air is an insulator.... really bad at cooling... ask any VW owner

Chris.......

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Blown Head Gasket

I disagree to a point.

Oil is the primary engine coolant, not water.

I totally disagree with this statement. Water is 99% the primary coolant. If oil was the coolant, please explain how the oil is then cooled!