Water in ujoint bellows, but they're new!

[smiles16]

Well fellas I knew when I bought my new to me '86 Ebbtide that it had possible ujoint/gimbal issues. Was optimistic thinking it'd be the leaky power steering pump making noise, but I was wrong and y'all were right....again. So, this is an alpha one gen 1 connected to a 230lx. I pulled the drive today and found water in the bellows. The bellows look great and luckily the splines and inner transom side of the driveshaft are rust free. There was no trace of gear oil in the bellows and the oil drained out green. The ujoints and gimbal are rusted and toast though. The kicker is, I found the large oring that goes around the spanner nut laying in pieces at the bottom of the ujoint bellow. I also noticed the water inlet oring fell off as soon as I pulled back on the outdrive. There was quite a bit of silicone caked in the water inlet oring seat as well. Could this be the source of the water??? I also am curious about the ujoint movement as well. I noticed while I was inspecting that I am able to make the ujoint contact the spanner nut. There is no damage or signs of contact with the nut that I can see, just noticed that I can make contact. Is that normal?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Clean the bellows and inner area of the housing. Get bellows adhesive , 3M Weathersrtip, contact cement, etc. and glue the large rubber ring in place and the water inlet O ring.. Install the drive and water test. If you have water entering the boat then you may have leaking bellows from a incorrect bellows installation or damage.

 

[wrench 3]

Take a real close look at the bellows. It wouldn't be the first one that's had a screwdriver blade poked through it when someone was trying to install a new bellows.

 

[smiles16]

There wasn't any water leaking into the boat when I tested it. I'll triple check, but the bellows even still have that squeaky new sound to them when you stretch them.

I was reading an old post where Don S mentioned water will leak into the bellows if the big bell housing/ spanner nut gasket/oring is off. I did find this laying in the bellows in a couple pieces. It actually almost looked melted. I just assumed it took a ride on the ujoints when it came off causing the worn, melted look.

I am concerned about the drive yoke input seal as well. I don't have any indication of failure of the upper unit drive seal, so should I worry about this? I was not planning on removing the entire driveshaft to replace the joints.

 

[stonyloam]

Yeah the dr is on the right track. What probably happened is that when you slid the outdrive in, the large sealing ring was loose and got pinched between the outdrive and the housing and was sliced by the edge when you pushed the drive on. The key, as said above is to use the bellows cement to glue the ring firmly in place against the ridge in the bellhousing before you slide the outdrive on. That was probably the source of the leak. The inlet o ring was probably OK.

 

[smiles16]

This puts my mind at ease. I'll clean it up, put it back right and see where I am at the end of the season.

What about the upper unit yoke seal? Should I just clean it up and keep an eye on it?

 

[Rick Stephens]

That big o-ring doesn't keep water out of the drive, it keeps any water intrusion in the shift slide area from getting into the bellows. If the water enters through the big o-ring then you still have some sort of leak, be it the housing gasket, the water passage o-ring or the shift shaft seal.

 

[smiles16]

How big of a dea is the shift shaft seal? I kind of suspected heat had gotten in there due to the condition of the big o ring.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Easy. Takes half hour or so. Use a long 3/8th bolt with a nut and a washer for a seal housing driver. However, heat would not have gotten to the shift shaft seal because of the big o-ring. The shiftshaft seal is basically underwater. It has exhaust and cooling water going by it. They don't get all that hot as long as plenty of cooling water is available to the engine.

The big o-ring does nothing as long as the rest of the gaskets and seals are working. So check everything.Nice clean surfaces for the gasket. Use grease to hold the water passage o-ring in place. I use 2-10-C there. Glue the big square o-ring into place with bellows cement or similar weatherstrip adhesive. While your leg is off, unscrew the lower shift shaft arm, and pull the shaft out the bottom. Inspect the seal. There are two seals in a row there, both with lip facing down. They should fit the shaft nicely. If not, replace them. No biggie.

The tough thing to check on water intrusion is the bellows. Hard to inspect and hard to replace.

Rick

 

[smiles16]

Well I'm almost halfway through changing out the ujoints. Made myself a little tool by cutting a chunk out of 1.125 socket in order to remove the ujoints without pulling the whole shaft. While I was working on this, I drained the drive oil completely to check for water intrusion there and found none. So I guess I'll just go over everything with a fine tooth comb and reassemble. I'm gonna try to tighten the bellow clamps while I'm at it.

ill pull the drive after a few outings and see if the water shows back up.

 

[Rick Stephens]

When I had a stubborn leak, I could hear a change in the outdrive sound when it had water in it. I carried several extra gaskets and found it a piece of cake to pull and inspect in a few minutes while on a camping trip. No big deal.

 

[smiles16]

Hey rick, pulled the shift shaft and found some rust water residue in the rubber and on the shaft. There was also about a 1/32" of play on it. Whaddu think?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Easy to replace.

 

[wrench 3]

Get the bushing with the seal built in like the Sierra 18-2622 http://www.iboats.com/Boat-Parts-Ac...-searched.1--filter.prod_name?q=18-2622&s=sol

 

[smiles16]

Cool, thanks!

By looking at this, I'm assuming you remove by driving it up and install by driving it down?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Other way around. Use a long 3/8th bolt with a nut and washer you put on after inserting up through the bottom bushing. Drive the new bushing and seals in and take nut and washer off to remove bolt. The Merc install tool is basically the same thing without threads. Have to be careful using a bolt that you don't damage the seals inserting and removing the threaded part from the seals..

 

[smiles16]

Well I ordered the new seal/bushing. Got that 1 piece deal y'all recommended. Got a 3/8 piece of all-thread, nuts, and washers at the ready too.

Got a question though. You told me how to install the new one, but I don't want to damage the bell housing driving the old one out. Should I just use a punch and hammer the old one out or use some other method?

 

[Rick Stephens]

That's all I did. Do want to be careful, the aluminum housing its less durable than the brass bushing.

 

[smiles16]

Well I got 'er all done. New Gimbal, new u joints, new shift shaft bushing, and fresh gaskets and drive oil. Thanks for the help with all that guys!

One more thing though, I had to put more effort than I thought normal on the outdrive when sliding her back on. Everything lined up fine, but I had to tighten the bolts to close it up the last .25" or less. It's all tightened up with no odd noises (that I can hear) while running. Is this just the new parts just making things a tight squeeze or did I screw something up?

 

[superfets]

I'm going to be attempting this same job this weekend. But you make the last .25" sound way better then saying i had to use the nuts to force it on for the last 1/4". That's more then a gasket or o-ring. I would have pulled it off and doubled checked that things right before using the nuts to force it on. But hey, I haven't done it yet. I'm sure one of the masters here will enlighten us. And then maybe i will be able to confidently use the same technique. :thumb: