Repower

Thomv

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
244
Both of my 1999 MerCruiser 454 MPI's are to the point of non-repair and I need to consider replacing both engines. Right now I am open to suggestions. My local Mer Cruiser repair center is suggesting going with two new 377 cubic inch Mercruisers but wants $35K plus tax for the re-power. Would this be the best option or is there a better alternative. Looks like the Powerquest is going to sit idle until I get more info on a re-power.
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,721
Both of my 1999 MerCruiser 454 MPI's are to the point of non-repair and I need to consider replacing both engines. Right now I am open to suggestions. My local Mer Cruiser repair center is suggesting going with two new 377 cubic inch Mercruisers but wants $35K plus tax for the re-power. Would this be the best option or is there a better alternative. Looks like the Powerquest is going to sit idle until I get more info on a re-power.

Oh that's a good one :pound: Have not heard one that good in a long time :pound: Going from 385 HP and 400 ft lb torque and want to replace with a 350 hp and well under 390 ft lb torque (if your talking the HO model)

Come on tell me what he really said?

If this is truth, I would rebuild the 7.4's or replace with 8.2's
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
47,499
I agree, rebuild them

you can build a pair of stroked 8.1's for about $3500 each assuming your 7.4 block and heads dont have holes in them. thats $1900 for the 4.25" stroked forged rotating kit and $900 for the cam kit and a bit for the machine shop and you would be putting down about 450hp. even if both blocks are junk, your looking at about $700 for rebuildable cores. by sticking with cast components you can bring that cost down $500, if you want to do a stock rebuild, subtract another $1200

what makes you think they cant be repaired?
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,513
are to the point of non-repair and I need to consider replacing both engines.

Ayuh,.... Please explain why they need replacin', rather than rebuildin',..??
 

Thomv

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
244
I agree, rebuild them

you can build a pair of stroked 8.1's for about $3500 each assuming your 7.4 block and heads dont have holes in them. thats $1900 for the 4.25" stroked forged rotating kit and $900 for the cam kit and a bit for the machine shop and you would be putting down about 450hp. even if both blocks are junk, your looking at about $700 for rebuildable cores. by sticking with cast components you can bring that cost down $500, if you want to do a stock rebuild, subtract another $1200

what makes you think they cant be repaired?

Both motors have holes between the cylinder walls which I was told can't be repaired or rebuilt. This was found out from a compression check and partial teardown of both motors.My dealer claims he did a search in the whole country and could not even find two motors for rebuilding because, he told me, because they are MerCruiser MPI's (330 HP) the ECM would only work on motors between 1999 and 2,000. He never mentioned going with 8.2's which I assume to be 496 cubic inch motors. Whatever I do I will do it over the next 6 months so I am not in a hurry. It did cost me almost 2K to find this out. Both motors did run except my top speed dropped off considerably so I knew there was trouble brewing.
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,319
You don't want to go from big block engines down to small block engines. The lack of power plus what you would spend for them would be highly disappointing. Michagan motorz has reman'd 454 long blocks for 5600 with a 500 core. Since you won't have usable cores figure on 6100 each. You would carry over the left overs from the old engines over to the new engines. If you don't need anything extra (such as new manifolds) you should be able to 2 engines installed for roughly 16,000 or so.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
47,499
your mechanic is looking in the wrong place. you have two GM L29 motors that have been sold to Mercuiser thru GM industrial engines, with the engines produced in the Tonawanda engine plant, delivered to mercruiser on a crate with heads, valve covers, oil pan, flywheel, starter, and water pump already installed.

The longblock is then marinized by mercruiser by them bolting on their exhaust manfolds, intakes, alternator, distributor, etc. the blocks and heads are EXACT SAME as ANY and I mean ANY GM 3/4 ton or larger truck from 1996-2000 with the 454 (7.4 liter). It is a GM L29 Gen VI big block. between $400 and $700 for a running core, blocks alone for $250 . search car-part.com for a salvage yard near you

The 7.4/454 from 1965 to 1990 is known as a Mark IV motor - 4.250" bore by 4.0" stroke, 2 piece rear seal and about 3 dozen heads over the years (781's and 049's being popular for boats
The 7.4/454 from 1991 to 1995 is known as Gen V motor 4.250" bore by 4.0" stroke, 1 piece rear seal and peanut port heads (really run out of breath at about 4500 RPM)
The 7.4/454 from 1996-2000 is known as a Gen VI motor or L29 in a short deck and L19 in a tall deck. 4.250" bore by 4.0" stroke, 1 piece rear seal, large oval vortec heads (fantastic swirl inducing head good for up to 5500 RPM)
The 8.1/496 from 2001-2009 is known as a Gen VII motor or sometimes called a LS big block. 4.25" bore x 4.375" stroke, 1 piece rear seal, cathedral port heads.
You can also build a 8.1/496 by taking a 454, boring 0.060 over and switching to a 4.25" crank
The 8.2 liter in a Mk IV, Gen V, or Gen VI is a siamesed bore block, 4.5" bore x 4" stroke (this is a GM performance parts block only, never in a production vehicle), however made available to marinizers thru GM industrial motors
Anything bigger than 8.2 liters is made by using a tall-deck block

The ECM will work only with the intake, injectors, etc. that are bolted to the motor for the 1999 and 2000 year, however the block and heads could be from any Mk IV, Gen V or Gen VI motor because the intake, injectors, etc does not know what its bolted to.

I am currently in the middle of a 10:1 489 or 496 stroker L29 build myself with the goal of 480hp on 89 octane with a motor only price under $3k (exhaust is separate). The heads will be my limit at 5500 RPM because they stop flowing enough air then.

for the price your mercruiser mechanic wants to charge you, you could have a set of freshly rebuilt motors with all forged internals, a remapped ECU and about 420-450hp each with a set of stainless marine exhaust manifolds and risers and have $20k left for fuel
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,721
Both motors have holes between the cylinder walls which I was told can't be repaired or rebuilt. This was found out from a compression check and partial teardown of both motors.My dealer claims he did a search in the whole country and could not even find two motors for rebuilding because, he told me, because they are MerCruiser MPI's (330 HP) the ECM would only work on motors between 1999 and 2,000. He never mentioned going with 8.2's which I assume to be 496 cubic inch motors. Whatever I do I will do it over the next 6 months so I am not in a hurry. It did cost me almost 2K to find this out. Both motors did run except my top speed dropped off considerably so I knew there was trouble brewing.

If they are in fact 7.4 MPI (and I'm sure they are) they are 385 HP motors. They are 7.4 (454) motors with 502 heads. The 502 heads are what gives those motors with the MPI all the extra ponies. You can do as Scott mentioned or get two short blocks and rebuild the heads. Your ECM can be reprogrammed by any good program shop.

8.1 is 496 and I would not go that way
8.2 is a 502 and would get you to 415HP and you could use all your stuff just need to reflash the ECM
 

Thomv

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
244
Thanks for the in depth explanations. This will help me decide what to do.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Both motors have holes between the cylinder walls which I was told can't be repaired or rebuilt. This was found out from a compression check and partial teardown of both motors.My dealer claims he did a search in the whole country and could not even find two motors for rebuilding because, he told me, because they are MerCruiser MPI's (330 HP) the ECM would only work on motors between 1999 and 2,000. He never mentioned going with 8.2's which I assume to be 496 cubic inch motors. Whatever I do I will do it over the next 6 months so I am not in a hurry. It did cost me almost 2K to find this out. Both motors did run except my top speed dropped off considerably so I knew there was trouble brewing.
Mercruiser "shops" probably won't use Michegan Motorz or other engines or do any reprogramming................ they just want to sell you "drop-in" engines.

Is this a salt water engine that literally rusted through in the block?? (OPEN-cooled?) If it is, since you're going to save a BUNCH of money with the repower, have the shop that does the work install San Juan Engineering (FULL) closed cooling systems on both engines and make sure whomever re-maps the ECU's knows you have closed cooling.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
47,499
I second the suggestion of going HX cooled with a rebuild.
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,721
A 496 would allow the use of Dry-Joint manifolds and risers. I would think that's a PLUS. What's the negative of the 496 other than having to get complete engines?

IMO, Very few of them out there, GM stopped making them, there are different versions, and little info on the newer versions which are not covered in manual 30. Here and OSO folks have been having all kinds of issues for years with the 496. Some seem to run great for years and others develop problems and they are slow to figure it out.

Just my opinion, I like the design they just have not worked out all the bugs
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
IMO, Very few of them out there, GM stopped making them, there are different versions, and little info on the newer versions which are not covered in manual 30. Here and OSO folks have been having all kinds of issues for years with the 496. Some seem to run great for years and others develop problems and they are slow to figure it out.

Just my opinion, I like the design they just have not worked out all the bugs

Good points!!:thumb:
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
47,499
part of the issue with the 8.1 is I believe that only Raylar has seriously played with them on the marine side.

the aftermarket is even slow to jump on them for the automotive world as well. most of the performance stuff for being geared toward the 454/502 motors or the tall-deck serious builds.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
I would want the engine just for the manifolds!!
Sure would be nice if someone was providing dryjoint manifolds for the 454/502..............
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
47,499
Stainless marine offers dry joint manifolds
 

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
40,721
The ones on my 502 are EMI's and their dry. There are several after market, but do agree the 496 manifolds provide some great flow with little restriction.
 
Top