3.0 in New Purchase Boat Makes Crazy Loud Noise

[lilboatsman]

Just purchased a 1997 Bayliner with a 3.0LX. Previous owner says he had the starter replaced last year, and then it started having starter issues. After I got it home, I put in a new battery, and it would make a few clicking noises like it wanted to turn, but wouldn't. It would also seem to lose all voltage for a few moments until I turned the key off, and back on.

I knew the motor wasn't froze, and stuck a wrench on it to turn the crank a hair. Next time I turned the key, I heard the starter spin a bit like it wasn't engaging, and then suddenly a loud racket, grinding noise while I saw the motor turning over. I tried it again, and the same thing happened.

Not sure what in the heck it was. I pulled the starter and the flywheel looks fine, as well as the teeth on the starter gear. I can't see anything on the starter saying if it's Sierra, or any brand or model number.

Maybe it's something with the drive, and I should pull that and try again? Ideas?

 

[Scott Danforth]

pull the plugs, then try to turn it over. you may be hydro locked. if so, that is another can of worms.

 

[lilboatsman]

No Title

I can do that. Here are some pics of the starter. Anyone know if this looks "marine"? I don't know what separates marine from automotive starters.

 

[kenk63]

take the started off and go to the auto parts store, they can test it, also make sure you have a good ground,

 

[Rick Stephens]

If it is a marine starter it will say marine on it. If it doesn't say that, get a marine rated starter. Beats hell out of 'boom'.

Rick

 

[lilboatsman]

pull the plugs, then try to turn it over. you may be hydro locked. if so, that is another can of worms.

Pulled the plugs, no sign of moisture, the starter spins the motor with ease with the plugs out. Put the plugs back in, and same loud noise. I'm pretty sure now that the noise is the starter kicking out of the flywheel. It will turn the motor for half a second, and then kick back out.

So could it simply be the starter? I will take it in for a bench test.

Either way, it doesn't give any indication of being a marine starter, likely I will be ordering a new one anyways. But maybe It will help me figure out if my motor is fine.

 

[Scott Danforth]

could be the starter, could be not shimmed properly. could also be a bad ring gear or the flywheel coming off.

with the starter out of the way, look at the ring gear teeth. use a prybar to rotate the motor as needed.

 

[lilboatsman]

could be the starter, could be not shimmed properly. could also be a bad ring gear or the flywheel coming off.

with the starter out of the way, look at the ring gear teeth. use a prybar to rotate the motor as needed.

Flywheel feels pretty solid as I turn it, ring gear teeth are all fine. I didn't think about shimming, I always thought that for some reason you're not supposed to shim starters. Maybe I wouldn't have to if it were an actual marine starter.

I tried taking it to O'rielly Auto Parts to get bench tested, and they can't do it without a car of some sort to enter into the computer. I will have to go to a shop where the operator is smarter than the gear they use.

 

[camalot]

We have stopped using the bolts that come with Sierra starters, get some OEM Chev bolts and do them up tight and your be good to go.

 

[lilboatsman]

We have stopped using the bolts that come with Sierra starters, get some OEM Chev bolts and do them up tight and your be good to go.

I'm willing to spend a few bucks on some bolts at the local GM garage before I drop $250 on a starter at Napa. First I will try shimming the one I have, just to see what happens.

 

[Bondo]

I put in a new battery, and it would make a few clicking noises like it wanted to turn, but wouldn't. It would also seem to lose all voltage for a few moments until I turned the key off, and back on.

Ayuh,.... The starter is grounded through it's body, to the block, then the battery cable to the battery,....

As corroded as the housin' is on that starter, I can understand the clickin', insteada startin',....

The new permanent magnet starters, like that one, uses slightly shorter bolts, 'bout 3/16" shorter,....
If the PO had the ole big body starter, 'n used the original bolts, the result is a loose starter that makes a God Awful Noise as it grinds it's, 'n the flywheel teeth to bits,....
Just went through this, in a barge with twin I-6s,..........

I buy reman starters from my local Napa, which gets 'em from a place down Albany way,.....
Con-Rel is a Great outfit that has taken Great care of me for many years,...
Anyways, after tryin' a dozen Chevy starter bolts, I had my Bud at Napa call Con-Rel,...
They knew the problem instantly, 'n shipped a box of bolts for all the Chevy starters on Napa's shelf, as All the new P/M starters are supposed to include the new shorter bolts,...
I picked up the new bolts the next mornin',...
In the mean time, I pulled the motor, to yank the flywheel, so I could flip the ring gear over, so the starter would run on new fresh teeth,....

Btw,.... Rick, I've never ever seen the word "Marine" on a marine starter,....
Only an "M" added to the part number,...

What makes a marine starter "Marine", is the electricity is contained inside a grounded housin', that sparks can not escape from,...
Usually with the addition of another little steel plate inside,...

They're Not water-proof, just spark ignition explosion-proof,...

 

[Rick Stephens]

Btw,.... Rick, I've never ever seen the word "Marine" on a marine starter,....
Only an "M" added to the part number,...

What makes a marine starter "Marine", is the electricity is contained inside a grounded housin', that sparks can not escape from,...
Usually with the addition of another little steel plate inside,...

They're Not water-proof, just spark ignition explosion-proof,...

I've got three starters and ever one has marine on the end cap or on the part number label. Interesting. I would be nervous have an unknown sourced starter in a boat - the one piece of equipment that always generates sparks internally.

 

[fishrdan]

The starter looks pretty new as the brass studs are nice and clean, but that's a lot of corrosion on the aluminum housing. Water getting on it? The starter looks like the one I have on my 140HP, China knock off that can be had for $60 or so online.... From your description of spinning up, then lots of grinding noise, it sounds like the starter is spinning up before engaging the flywheel. I'd bench test it before reinstalling, which you can do at home (carefully!).

Clean all battery cables, ground, starter base, block contact area (as Bondo mentioned) put starter back in, connect volt meter to starter's big + lug and battery negative, then see what the voltage is while cranking over the engine. You can do the same thing battery + to battery - and then starter + to block ground. See what the voltages are and if there is significant voltage loss while cranking the engine. If the battery voltage drops down - bad battery, if battery V OK and the starter voltage drops down a bunch - cabling...

If the starter is too close to the flywheel it can make a loud grind/whine noise, so starter shimming "may be" needed, but kind of a pain - shimming it 3-4-5-6 times until you find the proper clearance to keep it nice and quiet. If you run the bolts in-out a bunch of times shimming the starter, I'd replace the bolts before mounting it permanent.

 

[oldjeep]

Never seen a starter that said Marine, but a lot of them say J1171 on them which is the SAE number for a marine starter

 

[Rick Stephens]

Never seen a starter that said Marine, but a lot of them say J1171 on them which is the SAE number for a marine starter

Okeedokie. I appreciate knowing that. Wonder how anyone knows their starter was replaced with automotive or not?

 

[mickyryan]

you know I totally get the marine parts thing, however what scares me even more is the fact folks having possibility of going boom from a spark, I run blower every time before I fire my boat up also do a quick sniff test if I smelled fumes of any type id not hit the key till that was taken care of.
that said I have gone out to my boat every day since topping tank off and smelled around also used baby powder in a little baster on all gas fittings to see if any moisture was present , so far so good .

 

[lilboatsman]

Anyways, after tryin' a dozen Chevy starter bolts, I had my Bud at Napa call Con-Rel,...
They knew the problem instantly, 'n shipped a box of bolts for all the Chevy starters on Napa's shelf, as All the new P/M starters are supposed to include the new shorter bolts,...

Sometimes you just have to step back and have a beer. This starter is annoying me. Shimming just seemed to make things worse. Looking at the starter bolts, they look pretty well used, thought they seem to tighten up pretty well. Maybe it's time to check with the local GM parts garage, though I don't know if it will make any difference.

I'm tempted to give Con Rel a call myself and see if they ship bolts.

 

[oldjeep]

Seems like a couple washers would tell you if it was a too long bolt issue

 

[bruceb58]

Have a picture of the bolts? They are starter bolts right?

 

[lilboatsman]

Yes, they're starter bolts, and I'm pretty sure now that they're not the problem.

I was doing some reading, and someone mentioned that the bendix gear shouldn't turn more than one direction, and not very easily at that. I pulled the starter for the ? time, and sure enough. Bendix gear spins easily with my fingers, and turns both directions. Time for a new starter.