B3 delayed shift

alldodge

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I'm open to anything, and don't know it all, but wonder how lapping compound can be used to bring a gear back and not mess up the needle bearings inside the clutch. Only lapping compound I know of is used on valves. Pression blue is used on gears for determining wear patterns, but they have no needle bearings
 

muc

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Lapping the cup that is attached to the gear (the cone clutch locks into this cup) is a Volvo thing, they have even published service bulletins on how to do it properly.
At OMC King Cobra school they told us that while they wouldn't put it in writing, we could try using toothpaste but not valve lapping compound.
At MerCruiser Bravo school they recommend against it. They claim that because of the way they cut the cup to allow the clutch to disengage from the gear that lapping won't last. You will notice that MerCruiser is the only manufacturer to put a plus and minus mark on the cup. But I have heard from some mechanics that it works.
 

scoflaw

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So the question remains.. I will replace both lower shift cables at the end of the season. The drives will be sitting in my garage all winter. If I have a clutch issue it would be a lot easier to address it now rather than after I launch the boat next spring. Keep in mind that I have a delayed shift and once it engages does not slip after that.
 

muc

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You have a problem with your cone clutch and the cup on the gear are getting glazed. If you have been using the proper gear lube it will only get worse. How fast it gets worse depends how many more times it slips before engagement. Bear in mind that all cone clutch drives slip for a fraction of a second before engagement. So eventuly all cone clutchs will glaze. How close yours is to slipping under load is a guess. It depends on your shifting habits and how many times it has had a delayed shift already. Every time it happens it accelerates the glazing and puts a shock load on the gears and bearings. I understand nobody wants to pull their boat early for repairs. But have you priced a new cone? It will need to be replaced if you try lapping the cup. Have you priced a gear set? You just might be able to save this drive by replacing the cable now and get many more years of service. It's your choice but if it was my boat I would have fixed it before it slipped more than a few times. Even at dealer cost this is an expensive problem.
 

scoflaw

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Thanks Muc for that info,,, 1 more twist here,,, Disconnected my lower shift cable and pushed it as hard as it would go into the forward gear. Same issue. Now thinking it's not a cable adjustment. Thoughts on this.? .thanks
 

muc

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Not a good sign. Still a chance a cable alone would fix it, but not a very good chance. If your not going to haul out early, might be best to only use the good drive when docking. Try to keep that banging into gear to a minimum.
 

scoflaw

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Do you think I will need more than a clutch cone to fix this ? What is causing it to hang up and then dropping in hard ? I am going to attempt the repair myself and want to gather the parts online to save some $. Thanks Muc and yes I will need some luck.
 

muc

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It's impossible to tell from a distance. All I have to go by, are clues you have given. The dark gear oil is one of those clues. All little color change is normal but I can't see how much color change you have. Dark gear oil isn't good, it points to a drive that's running too hot. Maybe you spend a lot of time up on plane? Maybe you need drive showers? Maybe it's something else?
You ask if it would be obvious when you disassemble it. Yes it should be for somebody who has seen and repaired this problem a few times. We know what a new cup looks like vs one that's slipping than grabs vs one that won't engage anymore. You say that it still engages after it slams into gear. All that means, is that it's not completely glazed yet. Kind of like an engine that will rev up with no load on it. Not really valid to the problem because a V8 will rev to the moon on 6 cylinders.
I will tell you my advice if you brought you boat to the marina, you need at a minimum, gear set and cone clutch and all new seals. This is because I'm a MerCruiser master technician and I'm at a MerCruiser certified shop. This is how MerCruiser wants the problem fixed.
So now you ask, what would you do if it was your boat? Not really a valid question because I would most likely do one of two things. First would be, I would sell the B3 lowers, put on B1 lowers and put the bad drive on the port side so forward is now reverse. This is because I really don't feel B3 helps that much on a low horse power twin application and I would make enough off the swap to buy a new clutch and seal kit. The second is depending how bad the cup was glazed I would either put a new clutch and seals on or install a gear set that we have laying around from a insurance repair. Most bigger marinas have these because after a hard impact strike MerCruiser recommends that all gears get replaced. So if nobody asks for the old parts back, we use them on our own boats or they get sold on eBay. And that's the difference between you and me. If those gears explode and take out the case (probably a 5-10% chance of this happening) it's not that big of a deal for me but it might be a big deal for you. This is also why I'm against used parts like gear sets ----- the only person who knows why they are for sale is the seller, and sometimes it's not a good idea to fully trust the seller.
Bottom line is you need a new clutch and probably more. One of the clues you gave me was that you have forced this drive out of gear. Brut force is rarely better than finesse and may have tweaked or bent some or all of the shifter parts. That means all these parts should be inspected by somebody who knows what to look for.
Also you had asked about the brass barrel on the shift cable was crimped and won't turn. This is another clue to me that you haven't read the service manual. MerCruiser covers this --- if I remember right they even tell you what size drill bit to use when you drill out the areas that are staked. So if your set on doing this repair, please take a close look at the manual for your drives and maybe even the latest Bravo manual set. Did you know that the early Bravo manuals left out an important step that should be done when shimming a B3 lower. The instructors words "all the mechanics doing this job without coming to this class will do this wrong"
 

alldodge

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I think you can do it scoflaw, I replaced my lower gears and now have 520 HP pushing me, might be on borrowed time but doing fine so far.

Have manuals 11 and 28 and don't see anything about drilling the staking out, you think maybe its in a service bulletin or newer revision?
 

muc

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I think you can do it scoflaw, I replaced my lower gears and now have 520 HP pushing me, might be on borrowed time but doing fine so far.

Have manuals 11 and 28 and don't see anything about drilling the staking out, you think maybe its in a service bulletin or newer revision?

Pretty sure it was in a service manual. But it was a long time ago. So it might have been a S.B. Or maybe at MCM school. I did it a few times as a young mechanic until a senior mechanic pointed out that is was really for a brand new boat, his thinking was if the 6" had changed the unit should torn down to find the problem. That made sense to me, so ever since than I've pulled the drive to find out was wrong.
 

scoflaw

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Muc, my gear oil has turned dark from the start. added a drive shower that did help some..I spend very little time on plane. Your explanation makes sense. Going to give this a shot. thinking besides clutch look at shifter foot/yoke/cam.
 
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