Alpha 1 Gimbal Ring Play...what is acceptable?

[WOEISMEIGOTTA470]

I originally posted this in my current boat restoration thread, but realize this is a more keen place to pose the question: What are the specs for gimbal ring / swivel pin play, specifically the lower hinge pin, if any at all? This is for an Alpha 1, Gen 1 from 1987. Thanks!

It was warm last night, so I decided to do some work on the gimbal housing and begin the arduous task of replacing all the bellows with new rubber. In doing so, I was inspecting the gimbal ring among other things, and noticed a bit of play in the lower swivel pin joint. I didn't notice the play until after I removed the bell-housing. The upper swivel joint seems good and solid with no play, but I'd say the lower joint has about 1/16" movement in the play. Is this something that needs immediate attention? The gimbal ring swivels with ease and otherwise operates as it should, and all other parts appear to look nice and clean. I may also pose this question in the mercruiser section too. Please let me know as I'd like to start installing the new bellows and reinstalling the bell-housing otherwise! Thanks guys!

 

[stonyloam]

Up-down or side to side? The important thing is that there should be no play where the ring clamps onto the upper swivel pin or in the steering arm. A little vertical
play is ok. There isn't much you can do about play in the bottom pin without removing the ring, which is a major job.

 

[Rick Stephens]

If it is side to side play, then the issue to replacing the lower bearing is that the upper has to come apart. Which means drilling out an access hole to put a wrench on the steering lever bolts inside the top of the gimbal housing. Have to remove it and pull the lower pivot pin and remove the whole ring. Hence stony's warning that it is a pain.

If it is up and down movement, the play is supposed to vertically between .002 and .010". Quite a large variation. That is reasonably easy to reset, except you also need to be able to get a wrench on the swivel shaft nut up top.

This is all really easy with the gimbal housing out of the boat.

Rick

 

[WOEISMEIGOTTA470]

Up-down or side to side? The important thing is that there should be no play where the ring clamps onto the upper swivel pin or in the steering arm. A little vertical
play is ok. There isn't much you can do about play in the bottom pin without removing the ring, which is a major job.

There is a slight amount of play up and down, not enough for concern I think. There is side-to-side though.
There is no play in the upper swivel pin or steering shaft.

If it is side to side play, then the issue to replacing the lower bearing is that the upper has to come apart. Which means drilling out an access hole to put a wrench on the steering lever bolts inside the top of the gimbal housing. Have to remove it and pull the lower pivot pin and remove the whole ring. Hence stony's warning that it is a pain.

If it is up and down movement, the play is supposed to vertically between .002 and .010". Quite a large variation. That is reasonably easy to reset, except you also need to be able to get a wrench on the swivel shaft nut up top.

This is all really easy with the gimbal housing out of the boat.

Rick

Thank you both Rick and Stony for that info. I figured that side to side play isn't good, and that's what I have, albeit it isn't very much. It will only get worse I know, but do you think I can last a season or two with it the way it is? Again, I cannot feel any play in the upper pin or steering arm. If I can't easily replace the lower pin bearing w/o also removing the upper, than I may just look around for a complete housing in better shape and swap it out. The top nut on the steering arm is looking pretty rusty looks like it'll be a PITA to remove.
If I really have to, I can lift the engine out of the way and set it aside, and work on it from inside the transom if there's enough room to access what I need. Wish I had found this out before I put it back on the boat. Rats.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Pull the lower pivot pin, it comes out with a simple cotter key. Then you can check the pin for wear and you can use your finger to see if the needle bearing is shot or not.

I cannot imagine needing to replace the gimbal housing just because of that bearing. Be more work to replace the housing than the bearing and/or pin.

 

[WOEISMEIGOTTA470]

Pull the lower pivot pin, it comes out with a simple cotter key. Then you can check the pin for wear and you can use your finger to see if the needle bearing is shot or not.

I cannot imagine needing to replace the gimbal housing just because of that bearing. Be more work to replace the housing than the bearing and/or pin.

So just to be sure I'm understanding this right, either the pin, or the bearing, or both are shot (and worse case, the ring itself is shot). If the pin is the culprit and the bearing is OK, that would be best case since then I can just put a new pin in and done. But if the bearing is shot, I'll need to drop the upper pin too and remove the gimbal ring entirely to replace the bearing right?
Is this kit worth the $$ if I end up having to do the upper pin? Looks nice...

 

[Rick Stephens]

So just to be sure I'm understanding this right, either the pin, or the bearing, or both are shot (and worse case, the ring itself is shot). If the pin is the culprit and the bearing is OK, that would be best case since then I can just put a new pin in and done. But if the bearing is shot, I'll need to drop the upper pin too and remove the gimbal ring entirely to replace the bearing right?
Is this kit worth the $$ if I end up having to do the upper pin? Looks nice...

You got it. Be nice if the pin was shot and the bearing was good, hard to believe it though. The likely thing is if the pin is shot a dry bearing caused it.

I don't know how to evaluate the kit. Never bought one or replaced those parts on my own boats. If you need it, then yeah. If not....

Rick

 

[stonyloam]

No that kit is not worth it, because if the ring is tight on the swivel shaft and the steering arm is also tight on the shaft you do not need it. For the lower pin, if you have a grease fitting you have a roller bearing, if not you have a bushing. Yeah you might get the pin out, but you will not be able to drive the bearing (bushing) out with the ring in place. BTW my "87" had roller bearings. if you remove the engine you might be able to get to the steering arm and upper shaft nuts, otherwise you either need to remove the gimbal housing, or drill access holes. If your ring and steering arm are tight on the upper swivel shaft a little play in the bottom pin will not be a safety issue as long as the ring turns freely.

 

[WOEISMEIGOTTA470]

No that kit is not worth it, because if the ring is tight on the swivel shaft and the steering arm is also tight on the shaft you do not need it. For the lower pin, if you have a grease fitting you have a roller bearing, if not you have a bushing. Yeah you might get the pin out, but you will not be able to drive the bearing (bushing) out with the ring in place. BTW my "87" had roller bearings. if you remove the engine you might be able to get to the steering arm and upper shaft nuts, otherwise you either need to remove the gimbal housing, or drill access holes. If your ring and steering arm are tight on the upper swivel shaft a little play in the bottom pin will not be a safety issue as long as the ring turns freely.

Yeah, it looks like in the 80's they had bearings in the lower pin, which is now considered the old design and has since been replaced with a composite bushing (new design). I'm guessing the plastic part requires less maintenance, and is less susceptible to corrosion. Well I think you helped me with the judgement call to hold off on this repair, as the steering arm and upper pin are nice and tight and the ring swivels with ease. Just something I'll keep track of every season. Thanks guys! Onto bellows and installing new bell housing shift shaft bushings.