Starter replacement on 1997 5.7 Alpha - Manifold removal

[burtonrider11]

So this weekend, my plan was to change the oil and filter in our boat and take it for one last family trip. Unfortunately, the trip never happened. I believe our starter has gone bad. When we first bought the boat, the owner had told me that the boat starts hard and requires a lot of cranking. I had noticed when starting it in the driveway on the muffs that every so often, when cranking it sounded like the starter would just stop. I do not know if it was the starter or solenoid. I have two batteries, both fully charged and one is a year old.

The boat did not want to start this weekend on the muffs and subsequently, I had a little more cranking than I would have liked. I do not hold the key for more than 3-5 seconds at a time. I could get the engine to turn over and get to just barely run before it would die. I noted that the oil pressure did come up for the could of seconds it did run. I also noted that when it died it would "burp" white vapor back thru the carb. I have fiddled with the choke previously to help it start, but the last couple of times out, it seems to not want to start, maybe due to the cooler weather here in MI? I always run startron in my gas and try to run it at a minimum every two weeks.

After a few more attempts to start, the starter (I beleive) stopped and all I got was a loud click. I believe it is the starter as I have had intermittent issues prior and when attempting to start, after the click, I see all the gauges dropped as if all power is being routed to the starter.

Fast forward to my boat being torn apart to access the motor (I have cursed the engineer/designer of this boat, it's a 20 foot boat with an 8'6" beam and engine access is TERRIBLE). I have attempted to remove the starter but it doesn't fit between the floor of the boat and the exhaust manifold. So it would appear that I now need to remove the exhaust manifold to get the old one out and the new one in.

So (sorry for the long diatribe here), I need to remove the manifold, is there anything I should know? Should I order new gaskets and replace those while it's off? Do I need threadlocker for the bolts? Any special tools/tricks? I have a very large assortment of sockets, air tools, torque wrench etc, so I should be good to go there. I will be reading in the Merc manual as well on this removal, but I thought I'd start here.

Also and this is my biggest fear - is there any chance that the motor could be seized? I didn't hear anything and it seemed to turn over fine, but I am concerned that it does nothing but click now. I am praying it is just the starter.....a new motor would probably end with me getting a divorce Also, could the starter motor failing have any thing to do with it not wanting to start? IE it can't turn the motor over fast enough?

Thanks in advance for any help, these forums are a god send!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Should test before removing starter.. Could be the slave solenoid.
Personally I'd pull the engine to change a starter.. Much faster than fighting it in the boat. I can usually have them out in 30 min or so... An hour for the tough ones.
Don't feel too bad about the boat design... If you were able to get the the starter bolts you have a lot more room than many boats.

Sure hard starting and starter issues can be related.

Nothing you stated indicates a locked up engine.... If in doubt turn it over by hand.

 

[burtonrider11]

Should test before removing starter.. Could be the slave solenoid.
Personally I'd pull the engine to change a starter.. Much faster than fighting it in the boat. I can usually have them out in 30 min or so... An hour for the tough ones.
Don't feel too bad about the boat design... If you were able to get the the starter bolts you have a lot more room than many boats.

Sure hard starting and starter issues can be related.

Nothing you stated indicates a locked up engine.... If in doubt turn it over by hand.

Thanks Smoke! When do you want to come over and help me take out the motor I pay in beer, we live in Beer City USA (Grand Rapids MI) so it will be good beer too!

In all seriousness, pulling the motor is a bit beyond my scope. It really does appear that if I can pull the manifold off, I should have sufficient clearance to make the replacement fairly easily...I am 99.9% sure this is the original starter and it is quite likely that the solenoid may indeed be bad. My thought process was to simply replace all at this juncture to at least have all new components within the starting system. The engine is 18 years old and I have no maintenance records, so at this point, while it may be cheaper to replace the solenoid, I am thinking I'll start fresh....

Thanks for the confirmation on the engine, I am pretty obsessive with checking fluids, running at easy RPMs 3500 and less, and listening for ANY sounds that don't sound like good engine sounds. Since I could see good oil pressure even when it was barely running, I feel pretty good it isn't seized.

Interestingly enough, when I was in the boat, I found one spark plug wire that wasn't on very well. Thinking that when I get to the boat this winter, I will change plugs and wires, I have the boat torn apart enough to do this pretty easily at this point....

 

[flipbro]

Are you sure your motor is not hydrolocked? Water entering cylinders would also cause hard starts! Pull the plugs and crank it over.

 

[burtonrider11]

Are you sure your motor is not hydrolocked? Water entering cylinders would also cause hard starts! Pull the plugs and crank it over.

I hope that isn't the case. I suppose I'll need to get the new starter to see if this is the case....Can anyone tell me how to tell which starter to get for this motor? 1997 5.7l, 2 barrel carb, I am told it is a Vortec motor. The Merc manual states it could be the PG200/PG250 or the PG260, just trying to figure this out. I can look at the old one to see if I can get model info off of it....

If it is hydrolocked, what could be causing it and how do I fix it?

 

[Bt Doctur]

DISCONNECT THE BATTERIES FIRST
hydrolock is caused by water entering a cylinder, usually from bad manifolds, risers or manifold to riser joint. you should have a staggered bolt pattern so most staggered starters will work. No lock-tite uses anywhere for this job.

 

[smokeonthewater]

The slave solenoid is not on the starter.

As I said turn it over by hand.. NOT with the starter.

Eh I'd be happy to lend a hand but maybe not that far away.

Beer, never could get past the taste of that stuff... Bout like chugging gasoline to me.

 

[burtonrider11]

The slave solenoid is not on the starter.

As I said turn it over by hand.. NOT with the starter.

Eh I'd be happy to lend a hand but maybe not that far away.

Beer, never could get past the taste of that stuff... Bout like chugging gasoline to me.

Thanks Smoke. When I hear the "CLICK", it does not come from the starter it self, it must be coming from the slave solenoid.

I am just about ready to pull the manifold off the block. Prior to installing the new one, I will be sure to turn it over by hand.

As an aside, since I don't have any maintenance history on our boat, I also opted to get new plugs, wires, cap and rotor.

I do have one last question on the rotor, the merc manual says to add a drop of Loctite 271 to the new rotor and distributor shaft. A guy I work with says no way, you'll never get it off. I tend to side with Merc, but if anyone has any experience with this, I'd appreciate the input.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[burtonrider11]

For anyone wondering, I just installed the new starter. Just flipped the key for a millisecond to test it, SUCCESS! Engine rolled over nice and easy. Going to change plugs, wires, rotor and cap, I should be able to run it one last time before putting her away this year!