Does this sound like water in fuel??

BajabossJD

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 10, 2011
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Hello Guys!

Ever since I had my 496 stroker put it..I have had issues with (what I think) is a fuel problem. Boat has ran 200 miles perfect..but then I ran it out of gas and Seatow gave me 6 gallons to get home. Boat fired right up and I headed back to Marina. I then was called out of town for a couple of weeks and tried to use the boat. I put 30 gallons of fresh 93 non ethanol in and headed out. It hopped on plane but the rpms would start cutting out around 3k. Then as the boat would bounce, the RPMS would bounce. It wouldn't go over 3k rpm at all and every wave / wake would change the RPM. It tried running it for 15 minutes like this.. It then started to only run at 2.7k....then 2.5.k.. then just didn't want to run. Any more throttle it would cut out completely. (Remember this boat has been running mid 60's just weeks before)

I ordered a new anti siphon valve as I think the crap on the bottom of the tank did cause a issue with vacuum (I noticed when I was replacing filters)..I have since knocked the ball in the correct position and the valve seems to work as designed now (new one will be here tomorrow)

I tried dumping the carb and changing the fuel filters. I am now on the fence (as in going to buy a bunch of gas cans today) and pump out the fuel.

Is water in my fuel the issue?

Thanks,

Joe

496 W/ Performer Carb.
 
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Fishermark

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You mention "filters." Do you have a fuel/water separator? If not, you need one. If so, did you dump the fuel out of it to see what it looked like?

You might also check the vent to make sure it isn't plugged. An easy way to check is to run the engine without the fuel fill cap and see if it makes a difference.
 

BajabossJD

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I did dump the fuel filter (screw on type) into a clear jar and didn't see any water. I have also tried the cap trick and it didn't make any difference. The engine rpm is extremely bouncy when it hits a wave but never goes over 3k.
 

Volphin

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You may have water in your carb bowls. Take it off, dump it out and retest. (Don't ask me how I know…) LOL
It happened to me over a few weeks. I pulled the accel pump spring and it was rusted.
 
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BajabossJD

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Hey guys.. Out at the boat now. Checked onboard fuel filter again in clear jar.. No clear liquid on bottom.

I have emptied carb a few times now. 2 months ago that did the trick. And water came out. Now it doesn't help. I took horn and rods out to make sure everything was clear. Could that siphon valve be causing this problem? Anything else I should check?

If there is no water in on engine fuel filter.. Then tank should have decent gas? Right?

Thanks,

Joe
 

Fishermark

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You can try running it temporarily on an outboard fuel tank. If that solves your problem, then you have narrowed down the cause to the tank or fuel line leading from the tank.
 

DeepBlue2010

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If you had water in your gas tank, it would have shown in the filter contents. You said you did not see any. If you still suspicious of your tank, don't empty the hull tank. Instead, left up your bow and unscrew the sending unit. Insert a pump hose into the opening - mount the hose to a plastic tube to keep it straight - and pump out gas from the bottom of the tank and inspect it. Keep pumping out gas until you get to clear gas with no water and stop. If you want, treat the gas with the correct amount of fuel treatment product of your choice.


Do you have fuel consumption sensor on your boat??
 

BajabossJD

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Hey everyone! No fuel consumption sender on boat. I did get a remote tank hooked up today, opened the carb to make sure there wasn't any water left in it.. I will go for a run tomorrow. It fired up real quick on the remote tank. Ran perfect on the rack. The carb did look a little rusty on the inside.

I was thinking something similar with the water being on the bottom of the tank. That's when I first notice it...when I hop on plane. That may be sending the water right to the pick up when I hit the throttle. Ill try to get a good sample of "bottom" tank gas tomorrow. I'll report back with my findings..

Thanks again,
Joe
 

BajabossJD

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UPDATE:

Played with the boat this morning.. I had it on the charger all night so the batteries were topped off (been having funny starting issues lately).

Anyway, got it running and put it in the water. I had it running on the remote tank with good fuel (93). I took off and it hopped on plane up to about 4k..then it started doing the same thing! While driving in the no wake, I noticed the volt gauge read 11 or less..Then it got lower and lower.. By the end of a 2 minute drive at 3k rpm ..the gauge was like 9 volts. At this point the engine wouldn't even come close to 4k..it would die with too much throttle around 2800 rpm. I limped it home, noticing now that when I click the trim up/down..the tach goes to zero. and bouncing back. Hit the button again.. tach goes to zero (sometimes staying at zero for 4-5 seconds).

I checked the batteries when I got back. They were at 12volts when I left.. Now they are at 10 volts. I checked the battery switch.. 10 volts.

I checked the orange alternator wire on the alt and that was also 10 volts. I had just enough juice to restart the boat. I reved to 2k rpm..the batteries were saying 10 volts. Alt saying 10 volts.

Could a bad alternator cause this? Seems odd the boat wants to GO right when I put it in the water..then goes in and out. I obviously have some electrical issues!

All this was done on a remote tank. Boat fires up after a few clicks of the key ( sometimes have to turn key a few times before the "click" starts the engine)

. I checked to make sure the carb was clean and didn't have any gunk in it (blew it out) . I did keep the same spin on filter during this test (the one with no traces of water in it).

I also cleaned all connections on starter and battery to a shiny finish.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Joe
 
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smokeonthewater

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Yes it sounds like you have a bad alternator... And yes low voltage would absolutely cause your problems.... Get the charging system working...

Btw at 12 volts your battery is almost dead...
 

BajabossJD

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Hey guys.. I hope all is well!

I replaced the alternator.. A full 14ish volts now when running. I hooked it up to remote tank and it ran great. I put it back on my main tank (with new anti siphon) and put 50 gallons of fresh Non Ethanol 91 in it.. I took off today and same thing happened. It doesn't like it when the secondaries open up.. RPM's bounced all over from 3k-4k. It ran 20 miles today at 3k or less..no issues...but waves and wake will change rpm over 3k. I think I have a blockage somewhere. I tried removing the gas cap.. no change. Theres a 90 degree fitting on my pick up tube... Do I just fit a socket over it and take a look? I sprayed PB on it yesterday..Hopefully it comes out easy. I also noticed the fuel filter is half full when on main tank.. it was full (FULL) on remote tank...

Thanks for your help!

Joe
 

Fishermark

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If your fuel filter is only half full then you have a fuel delivery problem. It could well be your siphon valve.

Theres a 90 degree fitting on my pick up tube..

That's your anti-siphon valve. In your first post you mentioned ordering a new one with a new pick up tube. Did you not install that? It sounds like you have not removed it yet. Put your new valve and pick up tube on and see what happens.
 

BajabossJD

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If your fuel filter is only half full then you have a fuel delivery problem. It could well be your siphon valve.



That's your anti-siphon valve. In your first post you mentioned ordering a new one with a new pick up tube. Did you not install that? It sounds like you have not removed it yet. Put your new valve and pick up tube on and see what happens.

Yep. I put the brand new anti siphon valve in. Filter is still half full. Everyone is telling me to ditch the anti siphon all together.. I keep it in a covered marina.. I wouldn't want any insurance issues if I got rid of it (and there was a problem!). Any danger in blowing compressed air down the pick up tube? (with cap off)

Joe
 

Fishermark

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... Theres a 90 degree fitting on my pick up tube... Do I just fit a socket over it and take a look? I sprayed PB on it yesterday..Hopefully it comes out easy. I also noticed the fuel filter is half full when on main tank.. it was full (FULL) on remote tank...

From that question again, it sounds like you did not remove the anti-siphon valve. The valve IS the 90 degree fitting.
 

Fishermark

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In hindsight - I guess the valve screws into the fitting. Sorry about that. But yes, I would suggest taking out the pick up tube and seeing what you find. Replace it if there is any doubt.
 

BajabossJD

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Update:

Boat is running fine as along as I have 3/4 of a tank or more. It won't play nice when the secondary's open up (3500 rpm) and the sea wake will cause bouncing around. I have pulled the pick up tube (twice). Engine runs wot great until the tank burns about 10-20 gallons from a full tank.

The screen on the end is not clogged. I can blow through it. It's an aluminum pick up tube so a hole mid way down doesn't seem very possible (to let air in).

The pick up is in front of the level sender.. Maybe the sender arm is blocking the screened pickup?? I'm at a loss here.

I was able to run 3300 rpm perfect for hours today.. But as the tank got lower and lower.. The small waves made a bigger difference in the rpm jump.

Can I pull the screen off the pick up tube? If there is some junk in there.. I would like it to make its way up a little higher in the system so I can keep checking it (without taking off the elbow every time)..

Pulling the tank isn't an option at this point.. Never had any issue regarding the tank until a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks,
Joe
 

Bondo

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It's an aluminum pick up tube so

Ayuh,..... Does the aluminum dip tube come out with the elbow fittin',..??
or does it stay in the tank, 'n the elbow screws into it,..??..??

The elbow is a brass, 3/8" pipe thread elbow, Right,..??

If so,....
Get a piece of 3/8" soft copper tubin', it oughta slide right down through, inside the aluminum tube,....
It can also fit into the inside of the elbow,....
Pipe is ID, tubin' is OD,....
If ya sweat it into the elbow, no way to get air,....
 

BajabossJD

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 10, 2011
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Thanks for your response.

Yes, the aluminum pick up tube screws into the elbow. The tube comes out of the tank when I unscrew elbow. I cannot unscrew the tube from the elbow (seems to be stuck.I put a vice grip on it and it still doesn't want to come out. Tube looked to be in good shape though...although I will look at that NPT pipe connection from the tube to the elbow and see... Maybe its drawing air in from there.

You said to put the copper inside of the tube? That may seal it up if there is a leak there.. Can I run without a screen on the end?

Thanks,
Joe
 

Bondo

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You said to put the copper inside of the tube? That may seal it up if there is a leak there.. Can I run without a screen on the end?

Ayuh,... The ones I've seen the aluminum tube stays in the tank,....

If it's in the fittin', I donno whether 3/8" copper will fit in it,....

You can make a new one with the piece of copper tubin', 'n a new elbow,....

No screen necessary, that's what fuel Filters are for,...
 

BajabossJD

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 10, 2011
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Hey guys, I pulled the sender today and used a transfer pump to pump out the bottom of the tank. Had a lot of black flakes in it and pumped all those out. I moved the hose around a bit more and pumped out about 1-2 gallons of fuel. It looks like I had some water hanging out on the bottom of the tank too. I also removed the screen off the pick up tube. I still am unsure why the fuel level created the low fuel situation..

I'll test it out this weekend and report back!

Thanks,
Joe
 

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