Mercruiser 228 stops running

ScubaAl

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Well I'm sure this is along shot but I have nothing to loose.
1978 Cruisers Villa Vee with twin mercruiser 228's and BW velvet drives.
The last 2 times I've taken the boat out the starboard motor has quit. This is after running at around 2000rpm's for just over 1/2 hour. Will not restart.
First time back at the dock we do trouble shooting. Using a timing light looks like no spark. Switch coil, replace rotor and cap. Still nothing, then notice a wire on the + side of the coil is frayed. Repair this and the boat started right up. Problem solve, or was it?
Yesterday at about the exact same time frame the starboard motor once again stops running. Again back to the dock. Pull the fuel water separator and a little water but not much (both motors run off the same tank) we replace F/W filter, carb filter and inline filter.
Motor starts up and we let it run. After 35min or so quits again, is something getting hot?
I converted both motors to electronic ignition years back. So switch the electronic pickup from one motor to the other.
Start both motors and run at 2000rpms for 60min no problem. Shut down and decide to take the boat out to be sure. Run the boat up on plane for around 20min or so (3300rpms) and back to the dock, not problems.
Today figure I'll run it again to see what might happen, runs fine for another 60min and I shut the motors down. Decide to restart just to be sure. Starboard would not fire, turned over but no fire. Wait about 10min and now it fires up and runs.
Temp gauges on both motors shows around 140 but could something else be getting hot and causing the problem, electrical or fuel?
Sorry this is so long

Thanks, Al
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alldodge

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I'm thinking electrical but in order to verify, need to know if your getting spark. Every time it stops need to find out if you have spark. Which electronic ignition system did you install?
 

ScubaAl

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I'm thinking electrical but in order to verify, need to know if your getting spark. Every time it stops need to find out if you have spark. Which electronic ignition system did you install?

I'm also leaning towards electrical. The first time we had the problem we were not getting spark or it was intermittent, not from a spark plug wire or from coil. That's when we found the frayed wire at the coil + side and repaired. The boat started and so we figured the problem was solved. But with the problem showing up again yesterday we are now thinking the wire was not the issue but enough time had allow something to cool down enough to allow starting.
The distributors are Mallory, I replaced the points with electronic conversion, so distributors are still the original with the conversion. Yesterday, seeing as we had replaced cap and rotor along with coil we switched the electronic conversions between motors. After that is when we ran the boat for an hour before taking it out for a short checkout cruise.
Today I figured I'd do another check ran for an hour, all fine with both motors. Shut down and decided to restart the starboard motor. Cranked over but would not fire, check carb and was getting gas. After about 10 min fired up again and ran. Only ran it for about 10 more minutes because I had to head home.
The boat is 200 miles away on Lake Superior.

Thanks, Al
 

Bondo

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But with the problem showing up again yesterday we are now thinking the wire was not the issue but enough time had allow something to cool down enough to allow starting.

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,... When it won't start, is there Power at the coil's (+) terminal,..??
 

ScubaAl

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Since you have the Mallory conversion kit use the procedure at the bottom of this link to check out the system the next time it will not start
http://info.mallory-ignition.com/support/faq.html

If it uses the optical pickup it may also need to be cleaned. Which model is installed?

I installed a aftermarket electronics conversion, can't remember whom it was made by but wasn't mallory.

Al
 

ScubaAl

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Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,... When it won't start, is there Power at the coil's (+) terminal,..??

You know I really sure. I was doing the cranking and a friend back at the motor. But I do believe we did.

Thanks, Al
 

alldodge

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I installed a aftermarket electronics conversion, can't remember whom it was made by but wasn't mallory.

Al

Need to know which conversion it was so we can figure what the troubleshooting method is
 

ScubaAl

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Got up to the boat last weekend for more trouble shooting. I'm starting to think the problem may be a bad resister wire to the coil. From searching I found the wire should have 1.8-2.0 ohms mine was 4.0 ohms.
So after running for one hour at the dock at around 2000rpms I shut the motor down. Would not restart, then I thought I should hurry up and switch the coil out for the one on the port motor. Fired right up, this is what has me thinking the coil is overheating due to bad resister wire.
I'm not sure how much work replacing the resister is. This has me thinking about splicing a new wire on the boat side of the harness and running this to the + side of the coil. And installing a coil with built in resistance.
 

alldodge

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A 4 ohm wire would reduce the current more then 2 ohm wire. Less resistance more current, and more heat. During start cycle your running power straight to the coil and bypassing the wire. you have something else going on.

I'm thinking your module in the distributer is heating up and going out
 

ScubaAl

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If the module is heating up that would be because of a bad resistor wire correct. This would allow too much voltage going to the coil then the module. I was thinking that if the resistor wire was bad causing the coil to over heat that it (the coil) was cutting out. But you think it may be the module overheating.
This past weekend, after running for an hour it would not restart. I had a timing light on the coil wire and there was no spark. After a couple of minutes I thought "hey switch coils" so I as fast as I could took the coil off the port motor and hooked it up to the starboard. Fired right up and ran.

Thanks for the help, Al
 

alldodge

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When you swapped coils did the other engine fire back up?
Module heating up has little effect on the coil, it switches from open to ground to cause the coil to fire
 

ScubaAl

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Never did try starting the port motor after switching coils. I don't know if this is a good direction to go or not. But at this point I'm thinking about going to the harness boat side cutting the wire to pin #5 and running a wire right to the + side of the coil along with a coil with built in resistor.

QUOTE=AllDodge;n10035526]When you swapped coils did the other engine fire back up?
Module heating up has little effect on the coil, it switches from open to ground to cause the coil to fire[/QUOTE]
 

alldodge

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Don't think power to the coil is your issue, that just doesn't add up. If the wire was bad due to resistance (corrosion, or something else) the current would be reduced. You keep saying the coil gets hot, that isn't high resistance
 

ScubaAl

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I did switch the electronic module between motors. So if the module is heating up, what would the cause be?

Thanks, Al

I'm thinking your module in the distributer is heating up and going out
 

alldodge

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Maybe poor choice of words. The module may be breaking down as the engine heats up. Since you swapped the module you can see if the failure moved to the other engine
 

ScubaAl

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I have switched or replaced everything on the starboard motor with no change. The electronic conversions was switched between port and starboard, works fine in starboard. This leads me to believe the problem isn't at the motor but must be caused by something else. Again all parts from the starboard motor are now on the port and port is running fine.
I have ran the problem motor for 60 min at 2000rpm's at the dock, seems to running fine. But once I turn it off it will not restart. I had a timing light on the coil wire while cranking and had no spark. Took the coil from the other motor (which took several minutes) and with that the problem motor fired up.
I hope to get back to the boat this weekend. What I'm thinking about trying is, Pick up a coil with internal resistance. Disconnect resistor wire from coil, run a wire from + side of battery to + side of coil. Then redo the tests I have to see if the motor restarts after running for 60 minutes or so.
If this works I would splice in a new wire to #5 on the harness and run to + side of coil, leaving the resistor coil in place.

Al

Maybe poor choice of words. The module may be breaking down as the engine heats up. Since you swapped the module you can see if the failure moved to the other engine
 

alldodge

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Everything switched from one motor to the other and nothing has changed, so do think changing the coil will do anything.

Running electronic conversion modules should not require an external resistor, most all require an internal resistor coil and the external resistor wire to be removed or bypassed. As this is a real puzzler, trying something else may fix or at least bring the real problem to the surface
 

ScubaAl

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I would not be switching the coil because I think its bad, but because the one now installed requires external resistor ie the resistor wire in the harness. I will install a coil with internal resistor bypassing the resistor wire and running 12V right from the + post on the battery to the + on the coil. If the motor can then run for an hour and then restart I have isolated the problem, or at least I hope :)

Al

Everything switched from one motor to the other and nothing has changed, so do think changing the coil will do anything.

Running electronic conversion modules should not require an external resistor, most all require an internal resistor coil and the external resistor wire to be removed or bypassed. As this is a real puzzler, trying something else may fix or at least bring the real problem to the surface
 
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