93 Evinrude 115 V4 Ignition Question?

[chopperguy]

Hey Guys I need some ignition help. I've had a few issues with this outboard losing spark on all cylinders on a few occassions. Got towed home and then it started right up. I began troubleshooting the ignition system based on several online references. DVA readings showed 295 volts both legs of stator to Power pack. Stator to Rectifier/regulator showed 15 and 9 volts. Tach was cutting on and off ocassionally. Based on this I changed out the Rect/reg. After change out stator to Rect/reg reads 25v and 15v and tach is stable.
My question is I read that those two leads should read within 1.5 volts of each other. With the brand new regulator each lead is still 10 volts apart and the difference is not coming from the stator. So do i still have a problem.

 

[emdsapmgr]

You have been working on solving the tach issue. This side of the stator handles the battery recharge and the tach issues. There are other coils on the stator which are dedicated to making ignition voltage. You said the cranking voltage is 295. It needs to be at least 150, so it's probably ok. While you are at it, check the cranking output voltage on the timer base, too. Once you prove out both the ignition side of the stator and the timer base, the remaining replacement item is the power pack.

 

[chopperguy]

OK, Thanks. This is one of those ignition problems that you can't nail down, but leaves you stranded. Is it common for there to be multiple ignition components faulty? The system is 22 years old.
The stator also showed no signs of cracking, leaking or burning. I am ruling out the stator. Going to try it on the water this weekend again to see how it goes.

 

[emdsapmgr]

The side of the stator that charges the battery does not impact the operation of the ignition system. Weak ignition components tend to fail once the engine heats up to normal operating temps. May run fine when cold, then crap out when warmed up. So, you will want to do your ignition testing when the engine is fully warmed up- in order to get the correct picture of the health of the ignition system. You can't qualify ignition components by looking at them. I prefer the testing system you are using: qualify the components based on their cranking voltage outputs.

 

[SparkieBoat]

on an old motor like that it is good to just go ahead and replace stator, rectifier and power pack at the same time, It will cost you a few hundred $$ but then it is all new and no chance that one part will short out your new parts. go ahead and do the power pack. But there is a link to a free troubleshooting guide in my sig below that will help identify your problem. I really do appreciate CDI providing this. I buy a lot of their parts even though I have had a few returns recently, they do provide great customer service.

 

[V153]

Or ya could just troubleshoot and locate the bad part ...? (Don't cost so much that way ...)

It is quite UNCOMMON to have multiple components fail simultaneously.

Provided you've checked and double checked connectors/connections? Sounds like it might could be a stator overheat.

 

[Faztbullet]

This is usually a timer base problem.....

 

[V153]

This is usually a timer base problem.....

I dunno FB. Had timer bases drop a cylinder or two but never completely fail?

Aww hell. If'n ya got deep pockets like sparkie just replace everything. Problem has to be in one of em ...

 

[SparkieBoat]

I mean if all the parts are 20 years old, just go ahead and replace them all and be done with it. A bad regulator can damage the stator I usually change both out unless the stator is pretty new and checks out good. stators can be strange beast they can be working some times and going in and out other times, I have seen power packs do the same thing. I go offshore a lot and getting stranded even once would cost more than the parts if you had to call seatow. I usually do not change out the timer base as they generally do not go bad as much, I think I only ever had 1 that was bad. they can be tested easily with a DVA meter/adapter
I recommend to do new rectifier, stator and powerpack all together in most situations. It just seems to work out better for me and those who I fix motors for. I think that almost every time I did only the regulator, the stator and power pack were both replaced within a year, usually more like 1 or 2 months. but I am an amateur, but that has just been my experience.

 

[schematic]

wrong post??? sorry

 

[emdsapmgr]

I know you've tested the stator, but: weak stator output won't be able to fire all spark plugs on each rpm. May miss one or two different plugs every rpm or two or three. That's per your diagnosis. Re-confirm stator voltage ouput.

 

[Faztbullet]

I have replaced a ton that come and go, even sent several to Ray @Rapair/CDI when he owned it and failures was due to connections on white bias wire

 

[SparkieBoat]

I would also like to mention that a loose or corroded ground wire going to the power pack can cause sparatic spark. OHM test your ground wire to the battery ground. there should be no resistance.

 

[chopperguy]

Thanks everyone or the help. I took the boat out this week and put it through some tests without and failures. I was pleased, but they way these things are I am not sure my problems are over. Also discovered a new problem. Some one disabled the Warning horn, I hooked it back up and discovered why. I few minutes over 4000 rpm and the overheat warning sounds. A check with my infared temp gauge shows its not overheating. So someone decided to fix the false trigger by disconnecting the system. Can I just say I love getting a used boat. hwell:

 

[SparkieBoat]

what temp is your motor getting and are you sure it is the overheat alarm? what does the alarm sound like? solid tone or beeping?

 

[chopperguy]

Sorry for not getting back sooner. Ignition problem was the stator. Broke down weekend before last and the stator showed DVA reading of zero. Replaced stator problem solved.
Now on the cylinder temps. Alarm is definitely the over heat. Solid continuous tone. I installed a Faria cylinder head temp gauge and sensor and it never goes over 140 degrees. However, I let the wife take the controls while I sat on the back by the O/B with my infared sensor. Had her take it up to 4000 rpm waited for the horn to sound and took some readings. Nothing over 160 degrees. Temp varies depending on where you take it. I unplugged both sensors and the horn does not come on. Ran an hour North at 4000 rpm, came back the same. The O/B never quit or seized. Could the both sensors be faulty or could I have a blockage causing just a sight over temp?

 

[emdsapmgr]

The temp switches in the heads short to ground at 212 degrees. That's what sounds the hot horn. You are not close to an overheat at 160.

 

[SparkieBoat]

you only have to have one bad sensor or your tan wire is grounding out somewhere for the buzzer to go off.

 

[chopperguy]

Sorry for not getting back sooner. Ignition problem was the stator. Broke down weekend before last and the stator showed DVA reading of zero. Replaced stator problem solved.
Now on the cylinder temps. Alarm is definitely the over heat. Solid continuous tone. I installed a Faria cylinder head temp gauge and sensor and it never goes over 140 degrees. However, I let the wife take the controls while I sat on the back by the O/B with my infared sensor. Had her take it up to 4000 rpm waited for the horn to sound and took some readings. Nothing over 160 degrees. Temp varies depending on where you take it. I unplugged both sensors and the horn does not come on. Ran an hour North at 4000 rpm, came back the same. The O/B never quit or seized. Could the both sensors be faulty or could I have a blockage causing just a sight over temp?