Swap broken 1996 Force 120 with 1996 Johnson 115 outboard - any tips???

[batman99]

Currently, I have a 1996 Bayliner bowrider Capri 1700. Its boat shell is in mint condition and we plan to use it 6-12 times / year around our small lake.

Today. I bought an 1980's something 17ft boat with a 1996 Johnson 115 outboard. Motor runs great, has great PSIs and comes with brand new prop. My goal is to remove broken 1996 Force 120 engine and install (swap) with newly acquired 1996 Johnson 115 hp outboard. Both are long shaft.

I'm hoping to move (use) the 1996 Johnson 120 Control cables (re: throttle and gear linkages) in my Bayliner. Plan to use which ever steering cable is proper length and/or best shape as well. I might also move (use) the 1980's something steering wheel (since I like it better than Bayliner's loose telescopic / tilt design).

Wiring? Can I simply trace and splice/connect, or must I move (use) the 1996 Johnson wiring located within the 1980's something boat carcass?

Another other tips I should be aware of???

 

[emdsapmgr]

For starters, which 1996 115 hp engine did you purchase? OMC made two distinctly different 115's that year. The last of the 90 degree crossflows and the newer 60-degree looper 115's. It should not make a difference in any connections, but it's just nice to know what you are working with...Your plan sounds solid. Personally, I'm a fan of keeping all the original factory wiring harnesses and control box/cables with the new engine. Sometimes splicing can cause problems, esp around salt water environments. (the 96 does use the new Deutch connectors) Likely the Force does not have a separate oil reservoir like the Johnson, so you'll have to make room for that in the boat. You will like the VRO fuel pump setup. The Johnson has the potential to add the factory SystemCheck system.

 

[batman99]

Hi. Thanks for your feedback emdsapmgr.

Sounds like I should keep as much of its Johnson motor wiring as I can. Will keep the deactivate key assembly on the Bayliner's dash (good way to confuse boat thieves - LOL!) or perhaps replace it with a simple manual off/on switch - for its after marked stereo /MP3 player. And, use the key assembly on the OMC controls as the active switch (for Johnson engine). We'll see how this pans out. ....

I don't know the difference between 90 degree and 60 degree Johnson engine differences. I do know its a V4 and PSIs of each cylinder where cold @ 123,122,121, 120.5. Thus, it should have lots of remaining life - for my family's casual usage in our small lake. Luckily, the Bayliner bowrider has rear storage compartment - that can be used for the Johnson's engine oil tank.

Details of Johnson engine are:
Johnson V4 - 115.
Seller called it a 1997 but I think its a 1996 or 1995 year (re: Made in 1995 and sold in 1996 ????)
Model: J115ELEOC
SN: G 03952431
It has Optical Ignition System cover (under its engine hood)
Its controls (inside he 1980's boat are OMC

Based on above info, do you know if its a 90 or 60 degree Johnson 115 engine? Do you know the exact year of its engine?

thanks.

 

[175se]

by the model its a 1995 60 degree.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Your newer looper engine is strong. Very solid engine and big improvement over the older crossflow. More torque and somewhat better fuel economy. The compression is higher than the last of the crossflows. Nice package.

 

[batman99]

Many thanks for everyone's feedback. And, for your positive support.

 

[batman99]

Update:

So far, we (my son & I):
- Removed the broken 1996 Force 120 engine off our 1996 Bayliner Bowrider.
- For now, we left its onboard wiring, its onboard controls and its onboard steering cabling "as is".
re: Only disconnected things at the Force 120 motor area.
- Stored removed Force 120 engine on our little utility trailer and prepared it for sale - as parts.
- Removed the 1995 Johnson 115 from our 1985 17' Scorpion Bowrider boat.
- Learned the Bayliner has Rack & Pinion steering system.
- Leaned the 1985 Scorpion has Rotary Gear steering system.
- Bayliner's under dash area does have physical space for rotary steering system.
- Think I want to keep the "might tighter feeling" Rotary system and its better looking steering wheel - to be installed on the 17' Bayliner (assume cable is proper cable length / connections).
- Removal of 1995 Johnson engine was slow - due to recording its many wire connectors and masking tape / marking their many different connections. Seems everything we touched, we got grease residue on it. Especially the 1985's white interior.
- Today, we also bought keelguard 8ft rubber strip for our Bayliner boat. But, that's a topic for a different post. LOL!

If it doesn't rain tomorrow, I'll try to transfer over the rotary steering system from (1985 Scorpion to 1996 Bayliner). Read many times the steering cable must be installed and "angle fitted" as the engine is re-fitted on the transom. Tomorrow, I'll also build a bolt pattern template (for 1995 Johnson motor on the Bayliner) and see what Bayliner transom holes need to be plugged / re-drilled. Hopefully, minimum hole filling / hole drilling work in this area. Cannot complete this phase until I buy some Epoxy (this Monday / Tuesday ???).

So far, its a slow process. But, good "teachings" for my son - who likes to learn new things.

With above in mind, any other tips / traps I should proactively apply as well?

thanks

 

[emdsapmgr]

I'd probably keep the rack steering system on the Bayliner. The rotary rack is a compact design made for boats that don't have much room under the dash. I run that system on my pontoon 70 hp. If you've already got the rack system, it's more robust and is usually considered the better option for the 115 Johnson. The steering wheels are interchangeable from one steering system to another. Just swap it. I thought by 96 that the Force transom bolt holes had standardized and that redrilling for the Johnson would not be required.

 

[batman99]

Hi emdsapmgr

Many thanks for your feedback about motor mount holes. I checked the Bayliner Transom holes via measuring tape and it was 13" across the top, 10" across the bottom and on an slight angle, 8" from top to bottom holes. Checked the 1995 Johnson 115 engine's mounting base and with its slotted lower holes, it appears to be a perfect fit. Thus, no need to drill new holes in the transom. You know your stuff.

Based on your feedback, I will now investigate the Bayliner's steering. Would be very simple to use factory existing Rack/Pinion system (and its single cable). re: Leave "as is" and simply remove its tilt system. I need to confirm if its existing slop is from its worn out tilt system or slop from its a worn out cable (or both). Looks like rain in my woods today. Thus, not too sure if I can complete this investigation work today.

Again... Thanks for your feedback within this areas. You know your stuff.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Usually there is not much "slop" in the cable that results from wear. The most wear occurs when the inner steering cable starts to fray when it bends tight corners. The frayed wire ends start to catch the outer black casing and it gets harder to turn the wheel. That's usually why steering cables get replaced. (they are not made to be lubbed by the consumer.) Keep in mind that when you have the boat on plane the engine steering torque will usually eliminate much of any steering slop, as the engine constantly wants to pull to the right. That usually takes much the "slop" out of the steering. (due the right hand rotation of the prop)

 

[batman99]

Between today's rain drops (LOL!), I was able to investigate its steering slop. Most of its slop (90 degree from side to side) is within its factory tilt steering system. A few moments ago, I ordered a new "TeleFlex OEM Rack & Pinion Boat Steering System 15' SS14115". Thus, eliminate its tilt steering and its moving / wear parts as well. Back to basics with a solid steering shaft - with less future slop as well. While waiting for this new bundled system to arrive, my next step is to back the Bayliner's rear up to the hoisted Johnson 115 engine, and start connecting is many different controls, fluid lines & wiring. After new steering cabling arrives, I'll then bolt the engine on the transom (since installing thick steering cable needs an angled engine). I had a gut feel its factory tilt system was root cause of the steering slop.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Sounds like you've got a solid conversion plan ahead!

 

[batman99]

Update: Installed newly purchased Teleflex steering helm and steering cable (simple non-tilt rack and pinion style) today. I used the previous helm base to keep original shaft angle. And, I used the original collapsible rubber (from its previous tilt steering) instead of provided new solid plastic collar. Bolted together and all works great. Also removed the Force engine Quicksilver controls (and its attached wiring) and started initial measurements for older age OMC control unit install. Then, I ran out of daylight time. (sad face). Will continue its Johnson engine OMC controller install task another day. But so far... Conversion from Force 120 to Johnson 115 outboard is going good. Slow speed but good....

 

[emdsapmgr]

If you have any manuals with the Johnson, pay attention to the section that discussed how to fill/prime the oil line so that you have a good supply of oil right at the pump when you first startup. Also, the trim gauge will likely be a problem. The trim gauges from Bombardier function exactly backward from the Mercury (and probably) Force engines. So, after you hook the trim sender wires to the gauge, check it's functioning. If it's backward-you will need to purchase a replacement gauge that works with the Bombardier engines (Johnson/Evinrude.)

 

[batman99]

Thanks for the tip about Mercury vs Johnson `Trim gauge` (and its behavior) being backwards. If that 1985 Scorpion boat has a trim gauge and its the same dash hole size, I'll move that Johnson trim gauge from 1985 boat to my 1996 Bayliner boat as well. It's currently too dark outside to verify dash hole size (and if the 1985 boat even has a trim gauge).. But with good luck, I'll have a proactive solution for this area as well. Otherwise, I'll leave its trim gauge disconnected - since I always do visual tilt/trim changes anyway. I didn't know BRP (Johnson/Evinrude) and Mercury Trim gauges work backwards. Good info to know!

My 1996 Bayliner boat does have rear storage but it isn't enough available space for the Johnson 115 Injection Oil tank. To solve this situation, I'll simply disconnect the Johnson VRO (Oil Injection system) and go with 50:1 premix, Removing its VRO (via following lots of You-Tube clips) isn't a perfect solution for some folks. But it will work for me - since I'm used to doing premix (with my previous Force 120 engine).

Please keep your conversion tips coming. Your experience is allowing me to create proactive solutions - before I encounter the problem.

 

[batman99]

Update:
- Removed Force 120 main wiring (from inside the Bayliner's gunwale inner cavity area).
- Johnson 115 engine is now bolted on the Bayliner transom. Existing transom bolt holes were perfect fit.
- Connected NEW steering cable. Now, very little slop (may 1/2" side to side) within its new non-tilt steering system.
- Connected OMC control cables on the mounted Johnson 115.
- Disconnected Johnson 115's VRO (Oil Injection System).
- Connected Gas line (for 50:1 mix)
- Installed battery cables through its rear well grommet.
- Re-Installed its Nauticus SX Smart Tabs (using existing same mounting plates)
- Bolted OMC controls on Bayliner's gunwale side. Needed to make a custom mounting plate for this task.
- Connected main wires to OMC controller.

Next tasks:
- Buy / Install new Pitot on Bayliner's transom - to get its factory MPH gauge working. re: http://www.iboats.com/Speedometer-Pi...iew_id.1250629 Will do its install later - since we'll be using Hummingbird FishFinder / GPS for MPH and depth settings.
- Connect / test is electronic choke. Hopefully, OMC's choke system works properly.
- Connect its RPM gauge
- Transfer / Connect its Tilt/Trim gauge (to Bayliner's dash).
- Remove Bayliner's factory ignition key (on dash) and replace with master 12V power toggle switch. This switch will be master power switch for lights, 12V accessory outlet, its dash lights, it's after-mark radio/MP3 player, its horn, its engine temp alarm, etc. etc.
- Install Hummingbird 550 FishFinder/GPS unit. Unit on dash and sensor on outer transom (15+" away from prop).
- Test on muffs.
- After all wiring is confirmed, secure / hide all cabling / wiring within its gunwale upper cavity area.
- Install newly purchased Keel Guard (rubber protection strip).

Hopefully, water test this weekend (if all goes as planned).

 

[batman99]

Update:

Yesterday and today, completed:.
- Connect / test is electronic choke. Heard click when key is pressed but didn't test with running engine.
- Connect its RPM gauge / using RPM gauge from other boat. Will test with running engine tomorrow.
- Connected its Tilt/Trim gauge (transferred from other boat) but it doesn't work properly. Will check its wires tomorrow.
- Install / connect simple 12 Volt Main Power switch to activate gauges and its many other sub switches. All tested great.
- Noticed Bayliner's factory hummingbird depth finder doesn't work. re: Blank LED screen. Perhaps boat needs to be in water (???).
- Poured lots of 50:1 gas into its tank and gas gauge is working.
- Installed new water / fuel separator filter. Primed lines and now ready to start (tomorrow).
- Got 3 x extra keys cut for its OCM Controller ignition key. Lock locksmith made custom keys for it.

Next tasks:
- Double check its Tilt / Trim gauge wires. Hopefully, I can get it working tomorrow.
- Test its Tilt / Trim buttons from OMC control handle (instead of from Johnson's engine).
- Test its temperature "over heat" alarm - by grounding out its engine tan wire.
- Connect alarm device under its dash. Is this alarm really needed? Or, is Alarm in OCM controller good enough?
- Test running engine on muffs.
- Test is electric choke
- Test its high idle speed controls
- Test its F + R controls
- Test its Throttle Speed controls
- Test its dead man pull cord switch.
- After all wiring is confirmed, tape / secure / hide all cabling / wiring within its under dash cavity area.
- After all wiring is confirmed, tape / secure / hide all cabling / wiring within its gunwale upper cavity area.

Hopefully, `water test` tomorrow (if all goes as planned).

Sometime next week:
- Give it serious vacuum and internal cleaning.
- Install Hummingbird 550 FishFinder/GPS unit. Unit on dash and sensor on outer transom (15+" away from prop).
- Install keel guard (rubber strip) - when weather becomes much warmer.
- Buy / Install new Pitot on Bayliner's transom - to get its factory MPH gauge working.

 

[batman99]

Update:

Today....
- Trim / Tilt gauge (transferred from other boat) works. To my surprise, Johnson engine must be running for this gauge to work.
- Tilt / trim buttons on OCM Controller handle works great.
- Engine "over heat" temp alarm works (via grounding its TAN wire).
- Installed 2nd alarm - under dash. Thus, both OCM controller alarm and under dash alarm go off at same time.
- After lots of choke, engine fired right up. It needed lots of choke to flush air out of its system (from going 50:1 premix).
- After warm engine (on muffs), engine fired right up.
- High Speed Idle handle works great.
- Engine speed in F and R gears work great.
- Dead Man engine kill switch works great.
- Installed Hummingbird 550x fish finder. Will connect its fused "+" and "-" power lines to battery later.
- Installed depth finder's transcender or lower transom area (15+ inches away from motor).
- Tucked / secured wires/cables on right side - within gunwale cavity.
- Tucked / secured wires/cables on left side - within gunwale cavity.
- Lowered swivel captains chair 1/2"
- Installed wiring for its solar power trickled charger.
- My one neighbour came over and tested engine on muffs as well. He says all is great (from his experience view).

Will do "water test" middle of this week - when weather forecast looks better.

Overall, it's done. It's finally done!

Replacing broken 1996 Force 120 with working 1995 Johnson 115 on 1996 Bayliner Capri is now completed.

Would I do different brand of engine swap again? Probably...... Being different brands, it took much longer than I original estimated. But, it was worth doing - just to learn how it's done.... For ease of replacement, I'd recommend "like for like" same brand engine swap next time....

Hope this entire thread helps others....

 

[mattsmall1972]

Good luck with your water test. I just water tested a 1995 Force 120 -> 1993 Johnson Oceanrunner 175 swap and it ran terrific. I had to completely rewire the gauges - none of them worked with the old motor anyway. I am still trying to figure out proper VRO hookup since there are a couple of wires that I'm not sure about.

 

[batman99]

Thanks for your feedback mattsmall1972.

For my Force 120 to Johnson 115 engine swap, I left a 12V amp gauge "as is", left the gas gauge "as is". Had to transfer its Tilt/Trim gauge (re: original with Johnson 115 engine) and transferred over its RPM gauge (re: original with Johnson 115 engine). Left its MPH gauge "as is" and plan to activate using future Speedometer Pitots device install. To power the dash gauges and dash light switches, I installed a simple manual off/on "master" toggle switch (on the dash - within its original ignition key dash hole). The OMC Controller key only runs the motor's ignition. For Johnson's VRO (Oil Injection) system, I disconnected its external tank / hoses and disconnected the VRO on its engine. Lots of U-Tube clips for this change. Back to basics of old technology 50:1 mix. re: If it gets gas, I know its getting proper amount of oil. If you cannot resolve VRO (oil injection) system / wires on your Johnson engine install, perhaps changing back to basics of pre-mix 50:1 is good solution for you as well?

For my next final tasks, I need to fix a few scuff dents down its centre keel (created from hard beach landings), then install its 8ft long Keel Guard strip. Plan to centre its steering wheel and taping / twist tie its wiring under its dash area as well. Then, water test.... So far, muff test was great. Hopefully, I can do water test next week - when weather improves in my region.

Glad to read your Johnson engine water test went great. That gives me hope for my Johnson's future water test.