72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

[youngdreams]

We have a 1972 Johnson 85 HP motor, model # 85ESL-72R, serial # J 3698892, and cannot get our reverse to work. It will go forward but when we put it in reverse it stays in the forward position. We are thinking it is either the solenoid or the switch. Evening guessing this much, we are having problems finding parts for this year and make. Any suggestions or comments on the problem or where to buy parts would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

I gather thats an electric shift, if so i would check and see if you are getting power to the control switch first and check the fuses (don't know what kind of boat you have they will be under the dash or stashed somewhere between the ign. switch and the motor under the side rails, and then if it's getting power and the switches are working check the connections at the motor and see if the power is getting that far (is neutral working) when you have no power to the motor like when the switch is turned off the motor will stay in forward gear then when you turn the switch on it will shift to neutral, if all those check out ok it could be the reverse clutch spring is broken or a bad solinoid then you have to tear down the lower unit, good luck finding parts they are like finding hens teeth I gave away a motor just like yours a while back because i couldn't find a control box for it Here's a hint any V-4 electric shift parts in those years will work if you can find them sa 75hp

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Yes it is a hydro-electric drive and what had happened is we connected the battery cables backwards and could not get it to start. After figuring this out we got the engine started and it would go in forward and nuetral, just not reverse. When reverse was engaged it would still only go forward. As far as the parts go, I have been hunting and with very little luck. And thank you for all your help and any further you may have.

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Well now that we know that check the fuses reversing the battery may have blown the one that goes to the shift, but then you have to be getting power to it if neutral will work, make sure you don't have any wires crossed where the reverse switch would be putting power to the forward solinoid, have you hit anything going in reverse(with the prop)? that can break the clutch spring like i said in the prev. post. then its wrench city

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Nope nothing hit going in reverse, it was working great til we reversed those cables. After switching them back to the right way, is when the reverse stopped working. Other than that, everything else works, forward, nuetral, radio, pathfinder, etc....

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Follow all the wires from the ign. that goes to the control then from the control to the motor and unplug all the connectors and then hook them back up shoot a little wd-40 on each maybe there was a little corrosion on one and when you hooked it up backwards it lost connection, the worst senario would be that you ruined a solinoid in the lower unit, hope not.

 

[mrc]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Reversing the battery wires is a pretty nasty thing to do that poor old beast. Congrats on getting it running again. The hydroelectric shift models have two solinoids. One is engaged for neutral, BOTH are engaged for reverse.<br /><br />There are two wires which go down to the lower unit, one for each solinoid. You can check these without dropping the lower unit. From the rear of the motor<br />(Waterskier view) around the right side there is two wires that sneak around the back and go through a small hole down to the lower unit. There is a thick rubber sleave around the wire near the base. When rubber sleeve is peeled back a knife connector is revealed. This is how you disconnect the electric shift wires when you plan on services the water pump (hint hint). With a volt meter you should be able to verify the proper operation of the shift switch and wireing (12v to ground on 1 of the wires when in neutral, on both in reverse) If the proper voltage is detected, disconnect both knife connectors and measure resistance to ground from each wire. It should read 5-6 ohms.<br /><br />Of all the electrical parts on the motor, the shift solinoids and switch are the least likely to be effected by the battery polarity mistake. <br /><br />However once you get reverse back, I would pay<br />particular attention to the shift diodes and charging circuit as those "should" have been blown by the battery accident. (Shift diodes keep the engine in neutral after ignition switch is off until the motor stops spinning). A Non operational tachometer is a good indicator of a faulty charging circuit on this motor.<br /><br />Good luck,<br />Mike

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

I do appreciate all this help. But I did make an error on the nuetral, according to my husband the nuetral does not work either.

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Did he ever check the fuses? and make sure the switches are getting power? Like I said in the previous post with no power the motor will stay in forward gear and will not go in neutral or reverse I hope that is your case, have him follow the wires from the control to the ignition switch take a test light and see if it's getting fire there, if so take the cover off the control and see if it's getting fire to the switches, then follow the wires to the motor there are connectors back there on the starboard side of the power head that run down into the lower unit see if you are getting power there (if it's getting power there then dig out the tools) also like mrc3 said the charging sys. could have taken a shot too, but i think yours has a regulator it could be shot also,

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Is the motor running when you are trying to get neutral or reverse?

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Yes we did get the motor started and it ran great except for the fact we only got forward gear. I guess our next step would just be to follow the wires and check for power in all those places. I do appreciate all this help. Any more suggestions will always be appreciated.

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

OK we did all the checks suggested and what we came back with was; solenoids were functional per ohm testing, shift switch was functional per ohm and electrical testing, and the shift diodes were good as well. The only thing we did find was a bad connector(red) coming from the battery to the shifter box. Could this be what causes us to have only forward? Or any other suggestions where we go from here?

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Absolutely sounds like you might have found the problem, those connections are just like bad battery cable on your car, it'll start and run till you get somewhere and stop, then when you try to start it again you get a click and it looses connection, when you hooked the battery up backwards it surged the sys. and if you have a corroded connection zap no power, if that dosnt fix it keep checking the wireing, that connection would have failed sooner or later anyway. By the way don't remember if i told you before but welcome to the forum. Let us know if that fixed it.

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

We are going to replace that connector and take it from there. He said he has already checked all the wiring and all checked out in normal ranges per the Seloc book for johnson engines. And thank you for the warm welcome you have shown us. This has truly been a great site. Never have I had faster feedback than I get from here. Thank you again.

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Your welcome let us know how you come out

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

If that didn't solve your problem let me know, I don't know where you are located but i have a i beleve a 71 model just like yours electric shift its a runnable motor but i don't use it anymore if you are interested in parts. Let me know how you came out on it.

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

I do appreciate that and we will keep that in mind and just may take you up on that. It will probably be a good idea to get some for spare parts just in case. We will be working on the boat Saturday and checking one more diode we were told to check. Apparently there is one that we missed and according to the book, if this one is bad it will only allow current one directions and could be the cause of not getting reverse or nuetral.

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

like i said if you have any more questions do not hesitate to ask there is several here that have had these motors, if it ever gives up i would look for a manual shift motor, the parts for them are available most everywhere. Good luck with it.

 

[youngdreams]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Just a quick update to let everyone know what's going on. WE GOT IT WORKING!!!! Well we took the shifter apart and found someone had used graphite grease in it. It was everywhere. Hubby cleaned it all out and oiled it the right way. Next he checked all wires, solenoids, fuses and switches. All were fine, Next, thanks to Bassrunner he checked the gear case level and found that it was extremely low, that credit goes to a boat shop near here. They told him to just put it in the way it was sitting but thanks to seloc book he found out it had to be tilted to get the full amount. Then he decided what the heck, lets hook up the hose and low and behold it worked(took a minute or so to kick in but it did). Again we want to thank all of you for your help, especially bassrunner, and our boat Youngdreams thanks you as well. You all have been a tremedous help! <br />(Don't worry, my husband marked the battery terminals and cables with colored tape and paint, so there won't be anymore troubles due to bad eyes or bad cross connections.... lol)

 

[Bass Runner]

Re: 72 Johnson 85 HP reverse problem

Way to go on the color code and thanks for the flowers, tell hubby if he goes to the lake and dosn't have fun it's his fault, glad you got it going, always knew us old farts were good for something.