Water Pump Lower Unit question 1958 35hp Seahorse

[ohmydog]

Today was an exciting day for this new yet reluctant outboard owner/mechanic. After getting much help from you folks here on the forums I was able to fire up the motor briefly today. It was a glorious few seconds before I noticed that it wasn't pumping any water through to cool it, so I shut her down quick. Obviously the next step was to remove the lower unit and check the waterpump. Which I was able to do relatively easy considering my green horn status of ob mechanical knowledge.

Upon inspection I found some pretty ridiculous stuff and some kind of troubling things as well.
1. When I removed the LU I thought I'd see the o-ring that, according to the SELOC manual, I should be removing and discarding. It was not there on top of the drive shaft. When I peeped up through the drive shaft housing I could see what looks to be the o-ring up in the hole, BUT there is also some piece of metal something that is also hanging through the drive shaft hole. This worries me a bit. Any ideas what that might be? I'll attach photos. Also, please read on...

2. Upon removal of the waterpump housing I found what was left of the impeller. Almost laughable really (see photo). However, see that little piece of metal there next to the non finned impeller? that was found in there too. I don't know what it is but I'm sure it's not supposed to be there. I also don't know where it's from and that's a bit worrisome. How worried or not should I be to find that there?

 

[racerone]

No need to panic.----Install a new impeller ---Install an o-ring on top of the shaft.----Assemble and go boating.

 

[ohmydog]

Thanks. So, no worries about having maybe 2 o-rings up in there?

 

[HighTrim]

Looks like a piece of a snap ring, how that got into the impeller housing, I have no idea! I doubt you will ever know.

I cannot see the pics well enough to say for certain that is the o ring from the drive shaft, but if it is, simply rig up a coat hanged and pull it out. If it is up there all **** eyed, you will not be able to properly align the splines perhaps. If it gets stuck at the top of the driveshaft, you will have to force the gearcase up, which will bind everything up causing issues. If it is the o ring, try to pull her out.

Same reason you DONT put grease on the top of the drive shaft, only the splines.

 

[boobie]

Agree with the above. Put a small bend in the end of a coat hanger and dig like heck up there. You don't want any oring parts left.

 

[F_R]

1. I have absolutely no idea what somebody has done up in the cavity where you are showing the bottom end of the crankshaft (where the drive shaft splines go). But I can tell you that it is NOT the way it should look up in there.

2. That curved piece of metal with a small hole in one end that you show with your impeller is the remains of a broken snap ring that holds the carbon seal assembly on the bottom end of the crankshaft. Without it, the seal is not doing its job and water can enter the powerhead crankcase and totally destroy all the bearings---if it hasn't already. If you have any hope of saving that motor, you MUST pull the powerhead and fix that lower seal assembly. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

3. And while you have the powerhead off, look and see what some genius has dreamed up in there to come up with some unknown parts.

4. And of course, you will need to use a new o-ring on the splines. That is the least of your worries.

 

[ohmydog]

No Title

Thanks F_R. I was afraid of that. I did use a coat hanger to pull the o-ring out of there. That was no problem. But I didn't like the looks of what appeared to be a bent washer from the bottom of the carbon seal poking through the hole. Just like you pointed out, that would explain the snap ring part that ended up in the water pump housing. Looks like I'm going to get to learn a whole hell of a lot more about outboards in pulling the power head. Anything I should know? Tricks? or Just good words of advice? Thanks again.

Marineengine.com had some pretty clear photos of what I'm pretty sure I'm looking at in there...

 

[HighTrim]

Actually pulling the powerhead is not that big of a deal. As long as the bolts are not stubborn! PM me with your email address and Ill see if I can get you some literature that will help.

 

[ohmydog]

Great. Thank you. PM on it's way.

 

[ohmydog]

According to Seloc manual, it looks like I need to pull the flywheel, armature plate, starter and carb, then I can pull the power head. According to some sources on iBoat forums, I should be hitting those bolts with some PB blaster. Is that right?

I'm hopeful about the bolts because most of the motor is in really great shape with very little corrosion.

 

[F_R]

Nah, the service manuals are assuming you are pulling the powerhead with intent to go inside it for major repairs. It is easier to remove those items while it is still bolted down. But for your purposes, just remove the screws around the back and the 1/2" wrench bolts and nuts around the front. And the screw holding the silencer to the lower front cover. And the fuel/air hoses. And the shifter interlock. And the vertical throttle shaft. Disconnect any wires. Then lift it off.

 

[ohmydog]

I like your advice much better! Big thanks!

 

[HighTrim]

^^^What he said

Take off as little as possible to make it quick and painless. Easy Peezy. Use the Seloc manual to soak up the oil spills.

 

[ohmydog]

No Title

Got the powerhead off. Couple screws made it necessary to use an impact driver, but wasn't too bad overall. Also, I took off the starter and the muffler to make it easier to reach the 1/2 nuts up in the front. I took a few pics of what I found down there.

The spring and o rings for the seal were loose and lying in the cavity below. No sign of any clip ring (except for what I found in the water pump housing). One of the washers for the spring was badly bent. . Also, I found another o-ring. There are 2 o-rings in the photos. The o-ring that's above the spring is the one I grabbed with the coat hanger.

Time to order a few parts...
​

 

[pro-crastinator]

More pics would be a great gift.
A powerhead removal has not been documented on a big twin in - like - forever.

 

[Chinewalker]

If you have any issue finding the snap ring and seal bits, let me know, as I am pretty sure I've got them...

 

[HighTrim]

Glad you got it. Im still wondering though, how the heck did the snap ring get in the impeller housing!?

 

[ohmydog]

Got my parts in today. I have a question though. Does the o-ring just sit on top of the shaft?

 

[ohmydog]

Oops. I think I found the answer from another post on the forums. It looks like it goes in the groove just below the splines on the shaft.

 

[HighTrim]

Yes goes in the groove. Grease the splines before installing. None on top though, just the spines.