OMC/Johnson remote Control Box cable (gear/throttle) alignment or lubrication problem

[muncedog]

Hi all,

So the end symptom I have is that my reverse does not engage properly but please reason my explanation:

see the attached photo:


Firstly my assumption:
When the shifter handle is moved forward from neutral at the first dashed line the squeeze button pops out. Here the motors gear lever should have finished movement (engaged) and past this is throttle adjust. The same for reverse.

However... on mine...
The forward:
Engages ok, but then the throttle is dead for the first half of the region and only starts moving at the blue line - not a huge issue, just need to push it further.

The reverse:
Bigger problems, the gear lever isn't finished at the point it 'pops' out. In fact I think its in some awkward engaged state as the motor rattles vibrates and doesnt sound good. It continues to move the gear lever until the green line where acceleration starts.

Surely adjustment at the motor end will have no effect of the 'synchronisation' between the throttle/gear adjust and 'clicking out' points on the control box?

Is this just a cable adjustment at the motor end or is there some funky synchronising alignment adjustment in the control box?

Hope that makes sense

 

[F_R]

It makes sense, but I wonder if you really have a problem. It sounds like everything is normal except for when the button pops out, right? OK, gotta say I'm not familiar with the innards of that exact control, but isn't there a detent "notch" that you can feel when it is in-gear position? That is what you should be paying attention to, not the button. The button is only there to prevent unintentional shifting out of neutral.

You do NOT want to delay and let it grind as it is half way in gear. That causes rapid damage in the lower unit, and deep pockets to fix. Always shift with a quick snappy movement.

BTW, I almost had a bad accident with an old boat that did not have the neutral lock button. So I must say, the button was a very worthwhile design change!!

 

[muncedog]

That's an interesting point. When you say notch, are you talking about something inside the control box that could be adjusted, or a feeling when the gear lever reaches a certain point e.g engaged?

On this control box, in the region between the red dashed lines on my original photo, the button is held in on its own, it pops out( and rests in a 'notch' ) at the dashed lines - is this not the notch you mean?
Agreed I could ignore that notch and continue through until it is actually engaged, but would that not involve some serious over shot and large revs?
I will give that a try.
Doesn't help the cable is rather stiff also will oil them soon. Cheers

 

[racerone]

The button under the handle is to prevent shifting from nuetral accidentally.---That is it's only purpose any other interpretation is meaningless.------Are you doing this shifting with the motor running or someone turning the propeller ???---If you disconnect both cables at the motor how does the control box operate, is it smooth ?----What motor are you operating with this control box ?---If it is on a larger motor is the shift lever ON THE MOTOR near vertical when motor is in nuetral.---Has the lower unit been off recently for waterpump work...-----Answering each question will help you in finding out what is wrong if anything is actually wrong here.

 

[Chinewalker]

The red handle under the grip should ONLY pop out when vertical. You must hold it up in order to place it in gear. Once out of the neutral position, it should remain held up on its own. Behind the main throttle/shift handle is an index plate with a notch in the 12:00 position (plate in photo is rotated somewhat). The bottom of the red handle rests in that notch when in neutral. It is possible to reset the index plate in various angles so as to accommodate different throttle mounting locations in the boat, so that the main handle remains vertical, even if the box itself is not. Might want to pull the handle off your box and check that index plate. Let us know what you find...

 

[F_R]

munce, the other thing that you seem to be concerned about is the lost motion or dwell that occurs between the time it is in gear and the throttle does anything. That is completely normal and mostly is because there is a certain amount of lost motion in the throttle cable as it goes from pull mode to push mode and back again. The cable pushes the throttle open and pulls it back to idle. Thus the lost motion. In neutral, the cable has pulled it back to slow idle position, and as you speed up, it goes to push mode.

I suppose it might be technically possible to build something without that effect, but if t is possible it would be out of this world expensive. Yeah, I know, people say boats are expensive already.

 

[muncedog]

Hi all, thanks for help.
I noticed the rough reverse when powered but made visual checks on engine levers when off & hand rotated propeller to check engagement.

The shift lever is slightly off vertical so needs some small adjustment first.

The motor is a 2000 Johnson 130hp.

Just bought the boat so not sure about recent lower unit off.

I may be confused the handle may as you said only pop out at neutral, but there is definitely a notch at the red dashed lines - I perhaps wrongly assumed the motor should be engaged ( trolling speed) at this point and shift cable movement stopped. This is what happens for forward. For reverse its way past this before gear is engaged so why the notch?

I will check the index disc and alignment adjustment. Perhaps I misunderstood the notch! Doesn't help with stiff cables - it's hard to tell when it's in gear until over revving !

Perhaps there was no issue after all!
Thanks all

 

[tblshur]

muncedog if i understand the control box corectly, it should never rev up until its in gear, if it does then something is out of adjustment.

 

[muncedog]

Parts:
1 is the restance adjust screw - basically pushes metal lever into wheel to add resistance
2 is the shift cable gear - teeth onto the main wheel
3 is a (apparently loose) pin to the end of the cable, cable mostly held in place by the black tab further down the line.
4 is an electronic switch checking the unit is in neutral before starting.

How I believe it works FYI:

So... Had a look inside the control box this evening. This photo (taken from google images) shows the half with the shift cable. The throttle cable is in the other half, controlled by a pin which goes into that large greased slot on the main wheel in the photo.

When moving between the red dashed lines of my first photo, it is designed to move just the shift cable, by the gear labelled 2. The throttle cable pin slides freely in the greased groove such that the throttle cable isn't advanced at all.

When the lever reaches the red dashed lines there is a click, it IS NOT the handle popping back out (my mistake) but there is clearly a sprung bearing or something somewhere - perhaps in the index disc posted earlier.

At this point I believe the gear should be engaged but only at idle throttle, slowly trolling along.

It then takes some more effort to move out past the red dashed line notch (envisioning a sprung ball bearing pushed back in somewhere). As the throttle pin is at the end of the greased groove it starts moving and accelerating.


My Problem:
-The cables are slightly stiff, need an oiling
-The screw labelled 1 on the photo had part of its thread damaged (probably years of rubbing against the metal tab it slots through). This gave the feeling that the screw was fully undone (minimum resistance) when actually it was just cross threading the plastic part due to warped threads.
-Mine seems to have a lot of play in the gear lever (2). This may be why there is extra resistance at the red dashed 'notch' line?
-This play also may allow the pin (3) to come loose - it looks like its only held in place by a wall its compressed against when re-assembled.

-This extra resistance, combined with play in 2 and possibly 3 make things not 'sync' nicely as they should - the gear lever hasn't finished moving by the time the notch is reached. The notch is difficult to get past (stiff) meanwhile the engine is grinding half engaged!

My question:

-Tomorrow I will try oiling the cable with some spare motor oil (any issues with that?)
- I will detach the cable at the motor/control end to double check the stiffness is in the cable/control/motor
-Possibly place a washer under (2) to reduce the play
-Possibly duct-tape the pin (3) into place, ensuring the gear lever gets the full range of movement
-re-align the cables to the motor.
-Let you know how all that goes!

Any hints appreciated!

 

[muncedog]

Hi Guys,

Made some adjustments today- when placing in forwards gear,initially the propellar locks up one way and sort of clicks the other way. Push the gear lever further and it locks both ways. Same with reverse. It seems the cable pull isn't enough to make both gears fully engage.

Any suggestions to test this better without water - assuming placing unit in gear while running on muffs or in a large bin is a big no-no!?

 

[ronward]

Shifting in gear on muffs won't hurt a thing. Same if running in a barrel. BUT, if using a barrel or other such container it's wise to remove the propellor so it doesn't sling the water out or accidentally cut the barrel and/or damage your prop if it's aluminum.

 

[muncedog]

Thanks - tried this today appears to shift nicely now. Yet to test under load in water! Will wait for quiet day at boat ramp!

 

[muncedog]

Unfortunately still a bit rough under water Think there are bigger issues to fix with electronics first- will leave this adjustment for a while. Rather not upset the smooth forward gear adjustment!

 

[tblshur]

muncedog in responce to your post #10 ,if you take the shift cable loose at the motor and operate the lower unit shift shaft by hand you should have equal distance from neutral to forward as you do from neutral to reverse or really close if not may need to adj shift shaft. this is my understanding , i hope someone with more knowledge will verify these thoughts. good luck :joyous:

 

[muncedog]

Thanks for the reply.
I have for now moved on to other issues with electrics. At the end of the day both forward and reverse are usable, just for reverse you have to pull hard all the way back then ease the throttle off to ensure its in gear properly!

Mine does seem to be equal distance between forward and reverse from neutral but the cable range is not large enough between the dashed red lines on my original photo, where it clicks into 'trolling' speed for both forward and reverse to engage...

 

[boobie]

One other thing to check is make sure the cables aren't worn internally.

 

[muncedog]

So.... nearly a year later and looking at this area on the boat again! It turned out last year that the shift rod itself was rather stiff - a knackered washer I believe. -making a tough life for the remote control! For anyone with similar issues I suggest breaking the system down into sensible chunks - e.g. controller only. cable only, linkage only, shift rod only to see where resistance is!

munce, the other thing that you seem to be concerned about is the lost motion or dwell that occurs between the time it is in gear and the throttle does anything. That is completely normal and mostly is because there is a certain amount of lost motion in the throttle cable as it goes from pull mode to push mode and back again. The cable pushes the throttle open and pulls it back to idle. Thus the lost motion. In neutral, the cable has pulled it back to slow idle position, and as you speed up, it goes to push mode.

I suppose it might be technically possible to build something without that effect, but if t is possible it would be out of this world expensive. Yeah, I know, people say boats are expensive already.

This 'dwell' is still an issue for my engine - (around 1" of cable slack for me) there is not enough range to go from closed to open fly's.
If I adjust the cable to 'push' to WOT fly's open 100%, then they don't close back at idle. The fly linkage does have some spring return force to it, but apparently not strong enough to push slack cable back to the controller and close the fly's.

Because of this, I adjust for the idle end, ensuring there is enough 'pull' from the controller to close the flys, to ensure smooth gear change (part of last years issue also). The downside is that at WOT the flys are only probably 40% open!

So my question-

Is 1" of cable slack/dwell way too much? Or does the system rely on the cable smoothness and linkage return spring to be strong enough to 'push' out the dwell on the return to idle? Or have I missed the point on this?

I hope that makes sense?

 

[muncedog]

sounds familiar:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...utboards/545094-throttle-cable-slack-question