1995 200 Johnson Venom needle valves

DannyMc

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Rebuilding carbs on 1995 200 Johnson Venom and cleaning behind the little plates on the side of the throttle bodies I noticed the needle valve on #5 is screwed in about 1/8" more than the rest. Shouldn't they all be set the same? What is the proper way to set them?
 

daselbee

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Finally....someone doing it right. Be sure to get those tiny tiny holes..You might not even see them.

No, you will not even notice 1/8 of a turn. It is not that sensitive.

Start at 5 1/2 out when you re-start it, adjust for best idle.
 

DannyMc

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It was screwed in about 1/8 of an inch not 1/8 turn. That one had partially blocked holes also. I will start with 5 1/2 out. Thanks for your help. Hope to give a good report tomorrow.
 

HenryB

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I hate to confuse things because the needle setting is so important, but my manual calls for 2 1/2 turns for 200 hp 1992- 05 2005, and 1996 - 01 is 5 turns.
 

daselbee

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Never mind...no need to post model number. All models used the same carb.
The correct turns out to start will be 5-1/2 to 6.

Henry, the book you have would probably be a Clymer or Seloc, right?
 

HenryB

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Clymer, page 220.

I have a Johnson 130hp, J130TXACB, Clymer calls for 3 1/2 turns, what does your manual call for this motor?
 
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HenryB

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1998 Johnson 130 hp, J130TXACB

My Clymers Manual calls for 3 ½ turns out.

What does the OMC Manual call for the number turns out at the low speed needle valve?
 

DannyMc

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1,2,3, and 4 were set at 6 out and 5 and 6 were set at 6 1/2 out. I set all at 5 1/2 and started it up. It fired right up, but ran a little rough so I set all at 6 out and it sounded good. I took it to the lake and I seem to have the same problem. It bogs down at take off and does it a lot loading up. It died about 4 times getting it all the way on the trailer. If I jam the throttle all the way forward it will usually take off after a little hesitation and runs great at all rpms. It revs great and runs great on muffs, just bogs at take off. All carbs are rebuilt right and all holes in throttle body are clean. The idle still needs some fine tuning, but my main concern is the bogging down. Any suggestions?
Thanks
 

daselbee

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You could try bumping the key in when trying to accelerate. The extra fuel from the primer system would prove if you are lean, and causing the bog...indicating there might still be a carb/throttle body problem.

By the way, how many holes were there behind that plate on the throttle body?
 

DannyMc

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2 on bottom and 4 on top. I tried pushing in the key and i could not tell any difference.
 

daselbee

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The fuel that flows thru thst tiny calibration pocket and is metered by the needles comes up from the bowl thru those small brass tubes that rxtend down into the bowls. Thosr tubes are smaller at the top than the bottom. Are they all abdolutely clear? Does your primer system work? I am focusing on carb problems first. It seems like the most likely cause to me.
 

DannyMc

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Yes, all tubes and jets were soaked and blown out clean. Primer system does work. Is it possible that the screws are not set right and causing this? I did notice that once it gets going it comes out of the hole much better now.
 

daselbee

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Just to verify...

When idling, after warmed up, if you press the key in and hold it, the engine should stall. Does it? If not, it is possible that the primer system may seem to be working, but that the fuel is being stopped at the nozzles in the intake where the fuel actually enters the motor.
Just a thought to consider, especially if you have NO DIFFERENCE in running when you press the key in.
That NO DIFFERENCE statement is odd.

OK, so you are bogging on takeoff on this V6 looper....same motor I have worked on dozens of times. Hmmmmmm....

You will need to dig deeper I guess. Compression numbers, proper spark test results, and timing at idle would be nice to know. Compression should be 90-100 within 10% and running timing at idle should be in the vicinity of 4* ATDC.
Double check with timing light that all cylinders have spark when running. Look into the light. Be very critical and watch for irregularities, skipped flashes, etc. Compare all six. They should be the same.
With engine off, disconnect throttle cable, and manually advance the throttle to WOT. Observe the operation of the linkages. Pay special attention to the black tube like assembly under the flywheel, stbd side, and the timerbase that is attached to it. The timerbase should rotate slowly and smoothly counter-clockwise as you move the throttle lever, with no sticking, and as you come back to idle stop position, the timer base should also return (clockwise) to it's starting location.

If the timerbase is sticking, you will not have enough spark advance when throttling up, and the engine will bog. Maybe your timerbase is rotating, but very slowly in old dried grease...and when you throttle up, it is very slow to rotate but eventually does.

If you suspect the engine is too lean at 6 turns out, why not try 7 turns out? You cannot hurt a thing. When you get to 10 turns out, there is no more effect, as the needle tip is all the way out of the adjustment pocket at that point. But try it. You will notice that at 7 maybe 8 turns out, when you shut the engine off, and lower the motor, it will drip unburned fuel out of the prop. That will definitely happen. If you are in a tank, you will quickly develop a large oil slick on top of the water in the tank. These are signs that the engine is too rich.

This engine IS a correct engine isn't it? No weird mods, no swapped carbs trying to get a 225 out of a 200....stuff like that? Anybody play with the jets?
By memory, the idle bleed jet in the front should be a #27, and the HS jet in the bowl should be a #65D. If you had those carbs completely apart as you suggest, then those jet numbers will be in your mind.....

How many screws hold the throttle butterfly to the throttle shaft? Look down carb throat...it will be either two, or three.

And your link and sync......YOU MUST DO A LINK AND SYNC whenever you have the throttle bodies off.......all carb butterflies are absolutely closed at idle, right? The throttle pickup roller is maybe .005 away from the cam it rolls on, and the roller is in alignment with the raised mark on the cam ....right? You have to pay special attention to the butterflies for #5 and #6 due to that connector link used to link the upper throttle body to the lower throttle body. Takes me about 1 hour to absolutely verify the butterflies are absolutely closed. I tap on them, flip the mechanism...tap some more....do each side separately...and then attach the top link....flip the mech again....tap some more.....takes me a while.
Sometimes they behave well, and just come right in to sync. Others are a pain, with one side sticking open, or #5 and #6 being troublesome to get to close right.
 

DannyMc

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Thanks for all this info. The motor is correct and I have about 30 hours on a rebuild. It did not bog before the rebuild and showed up after about the first 2 hrs. I assumed it was the double oil and waited it out but it never went away. I also had a new throttle cable put on and the vro unhooked. I will check all these things you have suggested. Thank you.
 

daselbee

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New rebuild huh. New info here.....
With this new info, it could be almost anything. Could be compression problems, could be water on plugs from leaking head gaskets, could be low crankcase pressure....
But it stinks of fuel delivery OR timing advance problems to me.

I specifically asked about the actual idle timing because of low crankcase pressure problems. If it is at 4 BTDC just to idle (for example), then suspect low crankcase pressures. Note I said 4 BTDC not 4 ATDC. It is supposed to idle at or around 4 ATDC. Idling way advanced can be a sign of low crankcase pressures, and it will bog badly with low crankcase pressures. Could be poor gelsel application....who knows....
This is typical of a badly worn out engine, but yours is just rebuilt...so.....

But that is a long long shot. Last thing to suspect. Just post the idle timing as read when it is idling.

Did you mod it in any way regarding the reeds? Like fiberglass reeds? Is there fuel raining out the front of any of the carbs when idling? I mean raining, not misting....again a long shot, but very easy to double check, by just looking. If there is, it could be a reed block gasket has slipped, or burned fiberglass reeds due to a backfire. However, not likely that just ONE cylinder with these faults (or even two cyls for that matter) would cause bogging like you describe. This is gonna be a toughie.

Get some compression numbers. Check spark quality with the 7/16" spark test on ALL SIX. If you don't know what I am talking about, read up. Search. It is all over this board.

We can go from there.

Where are you located?
 

DannyMc

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Ok, I cranked it up this morning with it in a tub after setting the screws out to 7 turns each. Seemed to idle great. I let it run for several mins and reved several times. I ran it up to about 1500 rpms for a few seconds. It never missed a beat. I pulled the air silencer off to look at the butterflies and the black tube under the flywheel that you mentioned in your earlier post. All looked to be working correctly with throttle cable off. No raining from carbs. However i did notice milky white liquid in the bottom off all the air silencer tubes. Not much but it was there. I pulled my incoming fuel line off of the fuel pump and a white drop came out of the nipple. I have the glass fuel filter and there is no evidence of water whatsoever. I also noticed some condensation on 1 and 3 butterflies shortly after startup. If I have some water in my fuel would I be able to see that in the fuel filter chamber? No mods have been made. I haven't gotten a timing light yet and have not checked compression. I check spark with an inline spark tester only and all look good. I will check into the 7/16 test. I am in Lufkin, Tx.
 

DannyMc

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Ok, thats a relief. I will try to pick up a timing light tonight and will also do the 7/16 spark test tomorrow. Thanks again.
 

Faztbullet

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Make sure your setting the idle screws in the water ,in gear and off the trailer as you cannot set these on a hose.
 
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