1986 Evinrude 225 Heat Related Start/ Run Problem.

[Greg_E]

1986 E225 TXCDA.
The engine starts, idles, and runs normally when it is cold but the longer it runs the harder it is to start.

If the engine is hot and I shut it off it will restart and run normally if I do it within a minute or two.

If the engine is hot and I leave it off for say 10-15 minutes when drift fishing it gets increasingly difficult to start as the day progresses to the point I finally can't start it. After letting it cool down for about 30 minutes I did get it restarted and it ran great all the way back in.

Sometimes when it restarts it is not running on all cylinders. Pressing the choke or squeezing the primer bulb does not help. If I try to put it in gear it will just stall, so I let it idle in neutral and the rpm's will jump up when all the cylinders kick in, usually within a minute or two. If it does that it will run normally. That is why I think the cooling water in the block is bringing the temp down and the air flow under the cowl is cooling the failing component.

Also, last week I was drifting for bluefish and I don't shut the engine down when doing that type of fishing. I noticed the idle was irregular and got increasingly worse with time to the point I had to stop fishing and head in. It would bog and stall when I put it in gear. The drifts were fairly short duration and the the trip back to the start of the drift was at fairly low speed due to the fact that there are other boats in close proximity. I don't think the engine got cooled down sufficiently when going back to the start of the drift. Once again when I got it firing on all cylinders it ran flawlessly all the way back to the dock.

Flyweel magnets were reglued 3 years ago, One new power pack two years ago, Regulator failed last year and was replaced with a used one I had and it seems to be functioning normally. Fuel pump was new 3 years ago. I recently had a pinched fuel line but that has been resolved. Stator is not dripping any black goo. Oil consumption is about the same as the other engine (1988 225)

The other engine runs OK so it's not bad fuel.

Any time I've had a pack fail it would be noticeable at idle and max rpm's, so I'm not thinking it's a pack.

I have the CDI manual and diagnostic tools. I was just hoping to find someone who has seen this problem and can point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[Greg_E]

Anyone have a clue?
I've had two stators fail over the years and several power packs on four different V6 loopers I've owned. The failed stators made it difficult to start the engine when cold and would usually run OK if you could get it started.
The power pack failures were usually a a single failed output and even if it was intermittent would tend to malfunction when running at high rpm's when the pack was firing at a high rate. That doesn't seem to be the case this time.
I've never replaced a timer base, so I'm not sure what symptoms a failure of that components exhibits.

 

[Greg_E]

Anyone?

 

[daselbee]

Not sure....but I would disconnect the black yellow wire that runs to the shift interrupt switch.
You might have a vibrating failing switch that is killing three cyls intermittently.
It is a free check.

 

[Greg_E]

Thanks for the reply. It's worth a try. I don't know why that would get worse as the day progresses, but I can't rule it out until I try it this weekend. I might even have a spare S. I. switch I can pop in there.
I plan on checking all the connectors for a bad pin as well. I also have one spare power pack, voltage regulator, and fuel pump, but at this point I don't have anything to make me think those components are the cause of the problem.

 

[racso]

I've been having the same problem a couple of weeks ago since then i have checke this motor and cant find nothing that looks bad ..so what i done is run seafoam carb cleaner with a galon of fuel spray the intake and all ...it runs better and sounds nice to and it starts right up in the driveway so am heading out this weekend to tryit hope the fixes it .....keep posting your results my 87spl is showing the same simthoms so it be of great help if you share them . Thanks. And good luck

 

[Greg_E]

I disconnected the shift interrupt switch but had the same problem.

I finally got it to act up while at the dock so I could do some troubleshooting. Definitely had intermittent no spark on the two upper port side cylinders so that should eliminate a fuel problem. I replaced the coils with two used but good spares and it is running better. I did not find any bad pins in the connectors.
The stator resistance checks were in spec. but one side was about 30 Ohms lower than the other. I also noticed that the black tar like substance has just begun to leak out of the the charge coils for the ignition. It has not dripped down onto the engine but but you could see where it had melted and collected on the bottom of the stator coil. I'm not totally convinced that the stator is the problem, but it's obvious that if it hasn't failed, it will soon, so I pulled it off and replaced it. The resistance checks for the timer base are within the range listed in the CDI manual and are all the same, so that looks ok. I decided while I had the flywheel off to replace the timer base as well. I'll keep the old one for a spare. I did the sync and link and WOT timing using Daselbee's method.

The engine starts right up when cold, will idle all day without stalling and runs great all through the speed range. If I shut it off for 10-15 minutes I still can't get it started or it is very difficult to start.

The 1988 engine has also started doing the same thing. It starts cold, runs great but won't restart or is very difficult to restart.
I can pump the primer bulbs and it still won't get them to start. The last time out I never shut the engines off for fear neither would start back up quickly if need be.

Can the idle timing cause this problem? I've done all the linkage adjustments in the past but maybe I didn't get it right.

T

 

[Greg_E]

OK I think I have the 1988 engine running good again. I went through all the adjustments starting with the carb sync & link.
I had some difficulty doing the final steps where you adjust the idle timing expansion link (B in the diagram) and throttle arm stop screw (C). When I tried it by the book the expansion link was pulling the the throttle link stop screw away from the block and the idle speed was way high. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I finally just walked in the two adjustments so that the Idle RPM was good and it would start on the fist try when hot.

When I changed the Stator and timer base on the 1986 I did the WOT Timing adjustment but not the Idle timing stop. I decided to go through all the adjustments on the 1986 and when I went to do the Idle timing stop adjustment I discovered that the idle timing bracket and stop were not there, so that put a hold on that project. I'll bring the part from another one of my engines next weekend. I've never taken that part off so either the dealer who I bought it from did, or it came from the factory that way. The engine was replaced under warranty to the original owner and sat for years at the dealership. Supposedly they had finally found the problem and I bought it. Hopefully installing the stop and doing the adjustments will resolve the issues.

Any tips on doing the throttle stop stop and expansion link adjustments would be appreciated.

 

[Greg_E]

Upon further investigation I found that there was no idle timing adjustment in the manual for a 1986 and when I check the Evinrude parts diagram I could not find the part listed. I checked the 1987 manual and it did have the idle timing adjustment, so I assume that in 1986 they did not think they needed the stop, but added it 1987. They are essentially the same motor with an few improvements in 1987.
I installed the idle timing stop adjustment and went through the Sync and link adjustments, max throttle stop, idle stop according to the 1986 manual, and then set the idle timing stop to 6* ATDC in neutral. I know the idle timing stop should be set in gear but I didn't have a helper to run the boat while I worked. Also the 1987 procedure is different and I didn't have that book with me, so I will have to go back through the adjustments next time. I does seem better since I installed the stop and set the idle timing, so I will say I'm making some progress.