50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

[Robtile]

Any opinions on a new Suzuki 4 stroke vs. the new Johnson 4 stroke EFI in the 50 to 60 HP range. I got quotes on a 50HP today for both. For motor and controls, Suzuki wants $6400 vs. $6000 for the Johnson. This surprised me. I worry about Suzuki because they have so few dealers; however, Suzuki has an oil bathed timing chain rather than a belt. No one else appears to have that. I was told by Suzuki that the power head on the Johnson and Suzuki is the same equipment.<br /><br />Anybody know why Suzuki would be so much more given that they don't have the reputation or the track record? Based on my old 2 stroke Suzuki, I just don't see it.<br /><br />Thanks, <br /><br />Rob

 

[JB]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

The Johnson 4 strokes are identical to the Suzukis in all respects except the paint and decals.<br /><br />All things being equal I would buy the Johnson to get their service network. In this case things aren't equal so you get a better price as well as the bigger service network.<br /><br />Sounds like a no brainer to me.

 

[ob]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

JB,Do you happen to know whether in the advent of timing belt breakage if the pistons at TDC will interfere with open valves?

 

[Boatist]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

I hate to disagree with JB but this time I will. Bombardier has shown no sign that they are going to build any 4 stroke engine at all. Yes they are having Suzuki build a few engines with a Johnson paint but it not the engine that Evinrude sold or anything like it. If you check their web site they make no mention of building 4 Strokes at all. They are putting all the eggs in one basket. They may very well start up the 4 strokes but if I needed to buy today I would look at Mercury, Yamaha or Honda. I am supprised at the price different you found because at the San Francisco Boat the Johnson 15 was a lot more and only had a 2 year warranty while the Suzuki was less and had a three year warranty. Just my 2 cents. I really hope Bombardier does start up their 4 stroke line. I was also supprised that the 15 HP Suzuki/Johnson did not have a oil filter.

 

[JB]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

I think it is irrelevant whether Bombardier builds the 4 strokes it sells or buys them from Suzuki. Bombardier will service them.<br /><br />Bombardier is committed to offering 4 strokes from 4 to 140hp in the Johnson line.<br /><br />You sure sound like a Merc salesman, Boatist. It is their habit to knock the competition with half truths and outright incorrect statements.<br /><br />The 4 stroke engines being offered by Johnson are the same engines, made by the same manufacturer as the engines offered as Evinrudes from '99 to 2001. I have a Suzi DF70 and it is a superb engine.<br /><br />My recommendation does not change, Robtile.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[Robtile]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

Thanks, guys. The Johnson rep said that they have sold a couple smaller 4 strokes already, and that she thinks they have the 50 HPs available as well (I'll know tomorrow). I completely agree about the network aspect, but think the short-term committment issue is quite valid also. <br /><br />While living in the south, I had to tow my boat 75 miles to a "secret" garage where the "YODA" of east Tennessee lived to work on my Suzuki. Hw as the only mechanic around who would touch it, and there were plenty. <br /><br />I don't really want that hassle again. But I did notice that the timing/belt/chain is different and Suzuki has a long air intake of equal length per cylinder to consistently warm the air for each cylinder.

 

[BillP]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

Robtile,<br />For what its worth my local merc dealer/mechanic told me the later Suzukis 4 stokes are pretty good engines. Suzuki had major corrosion problems in the past with salt water and this has changed for the better. If OMC is building the leg like Merc does for the Yamaha powerheads, I would lean for the OMC. They definitely have corrosion under control.<br /><br />I'm in agreement with you on the timing belt vs chain. According to my mechanic the belt isn't showing issues on the 50 4s Mariner I own. It is extremely easy to check and replace on this 50...so I am scheduling mandatory changeouts even when it looks good (2-3 yrs). Chains would probably last longer but may be labor intensive for replacement. There is no way around the 4 stroke complexity...yet.

 

[Robtile]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

Thanks - <br /><br />I certainly appreciate the input. I probably won't get in the salt, but I did notice that the wetted parts are stainless on the Suzuki - so this may have been their recent attempts at a fix for their corrosion troubles. I'm leaning towards the Johnson though.

 

[chinz]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

I have a 2001 Suzuki 15 hp 4 stroke and it is a great motor. It is very queit and smooth. Sometimes the only way you know its running is seeing the jet of water coming out. It also has an oil filter.

 

[Boatist]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

JB I do not understand why you attacked me. First of all I do not work for or have any interest in any engine manufacture. I repair Mainframe computers. Every engine I have owned since 1966 is either OMC or Johnson. The 15 HP Evinrude sold before the bankruptcy is a totaly different engine than sold today as a Johnson. The 15 HP Evinrude sold by OMC used the same lower end as the 15 HP Johnson and Evinrude 2 stroke form 1974 on. The Bombardier 15 HP Johnson/Suzuki has a very different lower end.<br />You accuse me of making half turths and outright incorect statements, but I did neither.<br />I check Bombardier web site at least twice a week to see if any news about 4 stroke line. I have checked with every dealer in my area to see if they know if Bombardier is going to start up the OMC 15 HP 4 stroke but no one knows anything.<br />I still want to buy the OMC/Evinrude 15 hp 4 stroke if Bombardier decides to build it, to replace my 1975 15 hp 2 stroke kicker.<br />You say they are commited to 4 strokes, do you mean the Suzuki engines or do you have another source. If you know of info about Bombardier building 4 strokes I hope you will share your source.<br />I said nothing untrue.

 

[JB]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

Hi, Boatist.<br /><br />Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. I think you have been misinformed as to:<br /><br />"have Suzuki build a few engines"<br /><br />paraphrase "the new Johnson 4 strokes are nothing like the engines Evinrude used to sell"<br /><br />Suzuki has agreed to supply Bombardier with4hp through 140hp engines. They are identical to the engines sold as Evinrudes (4 through 115) for a couple of years and identical to the line of 4 strokes Suzuki has been selling.<br /><br />OMC did make 8, 9.9 and 15hp engines during the '90s but nothing close to the 50hp that Robtile asked about. I have an OMC-built '96 Johnson 9.9 4 stroke; a great little engine.<br /><br />I did feel that the tone of your post was demeaning to the "Johnson" engines, and you felt that I attacked you. It is clear now that we each misunderstood the other's intent. <br /><br />Peace?

 

[manitoba1]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

If you can get a better deal on the Johnson and there is a dealer that is close to you, go for it. JB is right to say it is identical to the Suzuki. I have had a Suzuki DF70 for over a year and have been extreemly pleased with it. I'm amazed at the compliments and positive feedback I've had from friends and complete strangers about how smooth and quiet my engine runs. I think I've lost count by now. My friends who have driven my boat are amazed how responsive my engine is. My 70 runs quiter than my dads 15 hp Honda. I'm sure you'd be equally impressed by the 50hp.

 

[Boatist]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

JB Thanks I appreciate your comments. <br />No one is more loyal to OMC/Johnson/ Evinrude than me. I have always felt they had the best Dealer/Part network in the business and have built great motors. I will admit that right now I do not feel the same about Bombardier. There are 4 Johnson/Evinrude dealers in my local area and each still carries parts but if you want to see any new motor they have none. They have other motor and some still have some new OMC built motors at a great price but nothing new. It is my hope that Bombardier builds the 15 hp model of the 96 9.9 you have. That is motor I tried to buy when OMC made it but I could never get what I wanted. One year they did not sell the 15 hp long shaft in a electric start model. The next year they did but still could not get it with the 4/12 amp alternator with voltage regulator on any motor except the 9.9 high thrust. I have been waiting to buy 15 hp long shaft electric start for three year now and the wife wants me to just buy a different brand. I am going to wait for the boat show in January and see what they have.<br />Peace

 

[Robtile]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

Just a follow up. The local Johnson representative called me yesterday and Johnson is indeed shipping their 50 HP 4 strokes. I can have one in 4 days. Just a follow up on the quotes as well. Suzuki wants $6400 installed w/ controls. Johnson wants $5800 w/ controls but doesn't include labor at $150/hr. So, I figure the Johnson will come in a little lower - but almost a wash. <br /><br />I actually like the Suzuki, but although they have the same power head, some items are different (timing belt vs. chain, etc. so service still may be an issue). In my mind Suzuki should be discounting their motors well below Johnson's for two reasons. 1) they don't have the reputation and 2) they don't have near the service network. I feel like Suzuki is gouging me a bit, and it kind of burns me up because I am a current Suzuki owner that had to tow my boat 2 hours just to find someone who would work on it, and he wasn't very skilled. Now consider this, Johnson must be adding some markup to Suzuki's power head if Suzuki is producing, so that means Suzuki is targeting a much higher profit margin. In short, Suzuki can pound it....<g>. Not a very good pricing strategy if you ask me. Not to even mention Honda and Merc that are both better names.<br /><br />So, Johnson it is. Thanks for the help and I didn't mean to start an argument

 

[JB]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

Again, Robtile. The Johnson and Suzuki are identical. The only differences are the paint and decals.<br /><br />Anyone who has told you different is blowing smoke and should be avoided.<br /><br />I would still buy the engine from Johnson. Service network and Bombardier backing.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[butlp]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

If its reliable service network your looking for then I would take a close luck at a 50 hp Mercury EFI.<br />When I purchased mine, it was cheaper, had a better warranty than the competition and there are more long term (happy) dealers in my area than any other brand. We've heard it here, more than once about the discontent within the Bombardier organisation and its dealer network. <br />If I was spending $6000 on a new motor I'd want to make sure the dealer network would be still around in a couple of years. You might have to start travelling 2 hours again to find some one to touch your BomSuzk.<br />Finally, you guys should start looking north of the boarder, your all paying way too much for those motors. A 2003 Mercury 50 HP EFI Bigfoot with power trim and prop is approx. $7000 Canadian. Do the maths, its a lot less than the quotes you got and as a non resident no tax. <br />Drop Mr. Merc a line and ask for a quote, that's how I got mine. (Funny he seems to have gone missing like Schematic did, not seen a post from him for ages. Must be a Canadian thing).

 

[chinz]

Re: 50 HP Suzuki vs. Johnson 4 Stroke

I bought a new boat with the suzuki DF140 and DF15 at a boat show and got the 6 year warranty on the DF140 for free. It maybe worth it to buy the Suzuki if you can get the 6 year warranty for free! I am not sure but I think the offer is good for 30 hp and up if you buy the motor at a show or dealer promo. Both motors have run flawlessly. I hope I will never need to use the Waranty. If I do I have three dealers within 30 miles of home. The new Suzuki's are really becoming popular up here in the Seattle area.