'81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

[slick75]

The title pretty much sums it up, now Im looking for reasons why.

Heres the story, last summer I finally got tired of the wrap and pull starting on my 35 hp that I had been doing for several years. Its strictly electric start so the cowling and retractable pull cord was never installed. So I broke down and replaced the starter solenoid for the third time. The first two times had similar results, put a solenoid on it and use the boat 3 or 4 times and replace the solenoid.

This is the third time, probably didnt use the boat 4 times last summer after replacing the solenoid so I dont see where its 'wearing out'. It jut seems to break. The last one actually cracked that plastic housing on the solenoid. This time I really cant see any damage to the housing, though the gray cover plate SEEMS to be bulging out slightly and a piece of rubber seal is visible.

When I used the boat Saturday it worked great on the first attempt to start the motor. Motor caught briefly and ran for a few seconds while charging the fuel line then died (nothing new there). When I attempted to start the motor again the solenoid kind of chattered then nothing. Back to the old wrap and pull.

I have tested everything I can think of to test. Checked the solenoid hooked up as normal (jumping leads). Main power is good up to the solenoid, nothing across the control posts. Starter switch wiring is good up to the solenoid. Pulled the solenoid off and hooked it up to a different battery. All results the same, the solenoid doesnt close.

Right now the short answer is to replace the solenoid but Im more concerned with why I cant use one more than a handful of times before it breaks again. Any ideas what would cause it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[F_R]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

I must say that is very unusual. So unusual, I don't have a clue. And I've seen LOTS of motors/solenoids. It almost sounds like too much voltage, but that would be impossible with a 12V battery. Or possibly is receiving some, but not full, voltage all the time, causing it to heat up? Better do some voltage checking at the small terminal. Should be a nominal 12V when cranking, zero otherwise.

Of course, I could blame it on China, but I won't.

 

[boobie]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Where are you getting those solenoids from and what brand are they ??

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

POst a picture of it please.
Dissection should be after that, they are easy to pull apart

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

I cant remember where the last one came from could be here, couldve been ebay or Amazon. Right after I posted this I ordered one from here. The first one I replaced I got from a local marine mechanic so I have no idea where he got it. The one thats on the way is a Sierra.

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Dissection is definitely in order, I want to see the inside of it myself.

If you look close at the center of the cap side you can see what APPEARS to be a piece of rubber seal working its way up. It doesnt show anywhere on the other 3 sides.


Here you can see how it LOOKS like the cap is bulging but that may just be the shape of the cap. Im overnighting the new solenoid so hopefully it will be here tomorrow and I will make a comparison and hopefully know whether the old one is truly bulging or if its just the intended shape of the cap.


This is just an overall shot with the rubber 'sock' still on it where the clamp holds it to the starter mount, as you can see the thing is in practically brand new condition.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Looks entirely normal. Have you some tester leads there?

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Im wondering if your key switch to solenoid circuit is intermittent and failing

 

[boobie]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Good point Bosun. He can bench test that solenoid with a battery, jumper wires and a volt/ohm meter. Done it many times. That will prove if it's bad or not.

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Im wondering if your key switch to solenoid circuit is intermittent and failing

This was my first thought while at the lake. Checked it every way I can imagine with not luck.
Its no longer on the key switch, I had to replace the ignition switch (after the solenoid problems started) and to keep from rewiring the entire boat I just ran new wires to a momentary button. The button was replaced last year at the same time this solenoid was replaced. I checked it with a meter and that doesnt seem to be the problem. Got a steady connection when pressed.

 

[racerone]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Are you by any chance over tightening the mounting bolts for the solenoid ?----Using a torque wrench ?

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Good point Bosun. He can bench test that solenoid with a battery, jumper wires and a volt/ohm meter. Done it many times. That will prove if it's bad or not.

So far Ive just been checking with the ohm feature to enure theres continuity (or in this case NO continuity). I watched my Dad smoke a meter once while working on a car because he didnt have it set to the proper setting for checking the car battery.
I dont know a lot about the meters outside the ohm function, what setting should I use for tapping into a deep cycle battery?

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Are you by any chance over tightening the mounting bolts for the solenoid ?----Using a torque wrench ?

No, I broke a control post on a previous solenoid doing that. I dont use a torque wrench but I pull just enough tension (with a short 3/8" wrench) to stop the connections from turning on the posts. Same thing on the main posts with a 1/2" wrench. They get a little more 'love' because of the large gauge wire, but by no means over-torqued.

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

Are you by any chance over tightening the mounting bolts for the solenoid ?----Using a torque wrench ?

No, I broke a control post on a previous solenoid doing that. I dont use a torque wrench but I pull just enough tension (with a short 3/8" wrench) to stop the connections from turning on the posts. Same thing on the main posts with a 1/2" wrench. They get a little more 'love' because of the large gauge wire, but by no means over-torqued.

There are no mounting bolts, the solenoid is held in place by a C-shaped clamp that bolts to the back side of the starter mount bracket. Thats what the rubber sock is on for on the back of the solenoid in the pictures above.

 

[racerone]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

If you overtighten the bolts on the C-shaped clamp it could jam it all up.---Solenoids do not like that as it can lead to a huge current in the " pick-up coil " and overheat the whole works.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

A solenoid sticking.... Electric starter cranking engine over when key is in the OFF position... is caused by low voltage, bad battery, good but low charged battery, loose terminal(s), tight but dirty terminal(s), internally corroded cable(s). This causes the internal contacts of the solenoid to fuse together.

Solenoid cracking, actually breaking.... Clamp is too tight, nuts are overtightened.

Solenoid swelling, exploding, cracking due to swelling.... Excess voltage applied to solenoid. Are you using dual batteries wired in series which would apply 24 volts?

Solenoids last almost forever so something is vastly improper in that starter circuit.

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

A solenoid sticking.... Electric starter cranking engine over when key is in the OFF position... is caused by low voltage, bad battery, good but low charged battery, loose terminal(s), tight but dirty terminal(s), internally corroded cable(s)Havent had that problem with this particular solenoid but I do seem to remember it happening on a previous one once. I simply jiggled the button and solved that. Thats what prompted me to change the button with the last solenoid.

Solenoid cracking, actually breaking.... Clamp is too tight, nuts are overtightened. That may have been the issue with the last one, I didnt have the rubber sock with that one and had to improvise with some electrical tape. But when it cracked it was at one of the corners around the cap, not around the barrel.

Solenoid swelling, exploding, cracking due to swelling.... Excess voltage applied to solenoid. Are you using dual batteries wired in series which would apply 24 volts? No, its on a single deep cycle battery. My battery for my trolling motor is on the bow since I needed a little weight up there tho help me plane out when I have a passenger. That and I didnt want to run wiring all the way from the transom for the trolling motor. The only things on the aft battery are the starter, the engine tilt motor, and the bilge pump that hasnt been used since I put it in. Everything else is wired to the forward battery.

Solenoids last almost forever so something is vastly improper in that starter circuit.

I agree, I cant think of why Im suddenly having so many issues with the solenoid itself. The first one was the original from '81 as far as I know and I only replaced it because one came with a replacement starter. That was the starter that had the problem staying together. Got rid of that problem and the solenoid thing started.

 

[Crosbyman]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

In MHO.... Relay chattering is a symptom of an insufficient mix of voltage and current to sufficiently magnetize the internal coil which mechanically closes the high amp contacts to send +12v to the starter.

the causes can be many

1- low voltage/current to the selenoid is the direct result of a poor +12volts/current mix from the battery supply ..fed across the closed contact of the start position on your key. Any mechanical or electrical irregularity in those contacts will affect the selenoid's pull up magnetism needed to saturate the coil and hold the relay contact closed properly, to energize the starter. You neeed to ascertain that nothing is wrong in the selenoid start circuitry.... from the +12v source , across the key and down to the selenoid STAT post . Check for any fluctuating amperage in that loop by connecting an ammeter in series with the lead from the key and the selenoid post DURING THE STARTING position on the key. You should see solid current flowing (measure using an analog (needle) meter with the smallest amperage rating in order to see any delections on a full scale ) When the key in START ...current will peak then stabilize to hold the selenoid closed. A bad start key, corrosion, poor contacts will cause an intermittent current flow.... and chattering

2- The selenoid needs voltage and sufficient current (amps) to hold securely. If the starter itself is pulling to many amps due to an internal defect it may be pulling so much current that it causes a high voltage drop and... affecting the selenoid's own minimum requirements to pull up..... resulting in chattering. Have you cheack voltage drop across the battery while cranking ???

Selenoids are just a one contact relay... not much to go wrong internally unless....something external is messing it up.
Relay chattering whatever the cause is causing contact bouncing on the high amperage contact feeding the starter. Relay chatter will quickly burn and pit the contact surfaces and lead to early death of the selenoid.

You can always hook up a temporary start key in parallel to the existing one by taking +12volts and hooking it up to the selenoid start post . see if it works better. If not, then something is wrong in the high amperage circuitry loop. Recheck everything

good luck

 

[slick75]

Re: '81 Evinrude Eats Starter Solenids

This page needs a "Thanks" button, awful lot of good info and I really appreciate it.

The more I see, the more Im thinking Im going to have to get into everything from a new cranking battery (instead of an old trolling) to a new key switch and reworking that rat nest of a wiring nightmare.

Ive started to do it a couple of different times but my ADD always gets the better of me and I wind up taking shortcuts. Theres just so many wires involved and many of them I have no idea where they go or what they do. Some are in use, some are not, ALL are faded to white. But I guess if I think Im ever going to crank this thing more than a couple times without performing a balancing act on the transom I better get off my bu and find some Ritalin and get to work.

This is why I hate anything to do with wires. Id rather relfoor this thing every year than tangle with that wiring.

I really appreciate everything so far.