Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

[mmorasci]

Greetings,

I?m rather new to the Forum and to Posting and am seeking advise.

I just rebuilt a ?51 (or was it the ?52?. I can?t recall at the moment) Evinrude 3HP Twin Cylinder (all new electrical and carburetor rebuild) and was absolutely amazed when I went to start it on how easily it fired up. When I rebuild these older Evinrude/Johnsons I can get them running pretty well but have never had one come to life so easily. My normal practice is to gently and slowly pull the rope through a couple of cycles before I ?sharply Pull? to try a start. This engine was running on the first ?gentle pull? before the rope was even halfway out.

Wishing to better understand the starting characteristics of this engine, and hoping to bring the same ease of starting to my other motors, I started the motor 3 dozen or so times over the next several weeks, no more than twice a day and always going 3-4 hours between starts. Each time I would run the engine at idle to full throttle and back for no more than 5-6 minutes, tops. What I found was that after the first couple of starts, each start began to get progressively harder until now I?m back to a normal (for me anyway) of 2-5 strong sharp pulls to get the engine to fire. Once it fires it runs great.

My question(s) to the Forum members are: What happened? And how do I get the ?easy starting? engine back and maintain it longterm?

I?m guessing there is something changing in the fuel atomization.

I just installed a ?rebuilt? ?61 18HP Evinrude into my recent boat project (a Ken Hankinson designed Ultra Pierre) and it is a terrible starter (even with electric start). I?m hoping to gain wisdom here and incorporate any suggestions into that engine as well as some others I use during the winter months in Duck hunting and Steelhead fishing boats.

I would truly appreciate any and all ideas/suggestions.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[nwcove]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

There is no "cookie cutter" approach to starting the oldies. They all have thier own personality.
What is your typical starting procedure on a cold motor and a warm motor?

 

[racerone]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

Freshly rebuilt motors likely have lots of oil on all the parts.-----So every thing is sealed by that oil.-----After running much of that extra oil is gone.

 

[F_R]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

For the first cold-startup, it is completely normal for motors of that vintage to require 3 to 5 pulls with throttle properly set and choke on. Once warmed up, one pull usually does it. If you run it and shut down for a period of time, it is somewhere between "cold" and "warm".

You are accomplishing nothing with your "gentle pulls". Get the controls set and pull it.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

There are many factors which will affect the motors starting abilitly. Compression, spark quality, fuel tuning, etc...

The compression can not always be helped. If the motor is worn, it is worn without a rebuild. So, what is the compression of the motor in question? Certain things you can do with ease to increase compression are change the head gasket, dress head, re ring, etc...

Just because you have spark, does not mean it is a great spark. There are many factors to making a hot blue spark. Coil end gap, spark plug, spark plug gap, plug wire continuity, points cleanliness and setting, are the points set exactly 180 degrees apart, condenser quality, magnet strength, etc... As you can see, there are many factors which contribute to a strong healthy spark. Takes experience to determine a spark from a great spark.

Is the carb clean and properly set? Sometimes half a turn of a needle will change the motors starting characteristics. In general, these old omcs like to be rich when starting, some more than others. Quick turn of the needle will remedy this.

 

[mmorasci]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

Wow, Thank you so much for the quick and varied/detailed response(s).

I fully understand the individuality in motors. I?ve experienced this in most every Carbureted engine I?ve ever owned (car, mower, dirt bike, chain saw etc.). My ?outboard? starting/stopping process of course depends a lot on time (how long between runs) and weather (cold/hot). Generally, if the engine will be idle for more than a day or two, I?ll add sta-bil to the fuel (I?m running 93 octane no ethanol gas), run for a bit, then turn off the fuel and let the carb go dry. Then I?ll remove the plug and fog the cylinder. If it?s going to sit for a long while I?ll drop the bowl and clean it out, clean the fuel filter, and also fog the intake. To start, fuel goes on, and gets pressurized (bulb if its so equipped) or watch the flow to the filter then wait for the carb to fill (I use clear fuel lines on my small gravity feed engines). Set the choke full, set the throttle and begin to sharply pull the start rope. Usually after a pull or two I?ll get a ?pop?, then depending on weather (hot or cold and severity), I may adjust the choke down a bit and/or throttle and continue to pull until I get it to run (Usually somewhere between 2-6 pulls). For a warm motor, usally ? or no choke (depends on how warm) and set the throttle. Engines usually starts right up (1 or 2 pulls).

As for ?extra oil? ?sealing everything? possibly affecting starting, I can see that. But since each time I started the motor I?d run it for 3-5 minutes or so, and the ?change? in ease of starting didn?t really begin to be noticeable until 8-10-12 starts later could this really have an impact? I?d guess that any excess oil that may have been a benefit would be pretty much be gone after the first 5-10 minutes of run time (before the third start attempt).

The ?gentle pulls? I was referring to is a practice I?ve adopted over the years merely as a final sanity check that there are no mechanical interferences due to oversight in a rebuild. I kept them up in the 3HP starting for the first almost dozen starts only until the ?easy starting? phenomenon went away. The last couple of dozen pulls were of the Pull?. Pull?. Pull variety.

I don?t remember the compression, but I do recall that it was so good there was no need in my mind to mess with the mechanicals of the power head. This was the first time I?ve ever set up a point gap using a DVM. I have not pulled the flywheel to see if that has changed. Otherwise all electrical components were installed new and only have the hour or so of run time on them. I realize that a new part doesn?t necessarily guarantee a ?good? part. I don?t know how to measure a ?good? spark but I can say the plugs are not discolored or oily, and the spark is a bright blue and snaps crisply.

The Carb was gone through with all passages being wired and cleaned, needles polished and repacked, new main jet with a steel needle and wire clip to a new float. The jets were set to ? turn and 1 ? turn out and I haven?t touched them in all the starts. I was going to adjust them when I put the motor on the boat.

I really I appreciate all the input. I guess I am in the ?Jack of all trades and master of none? camp when it comes to outboards. I have been ?playing? with them for years and can get them running fine. This was the very first time in all these years I?ve ever had one start so easily and was very much hoping to keep this engine starting this easy ?forever? and then adapting any tricks learned to my other outboards. I?m still pondering what changed and can I get it back.

Mike

 

[racerone]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

Spark on any motor is tested with a tool, not a sparkplug.-A store bought or homemade tool is required.-Such a device has an adjustable air gap from 1/4" to over 1/2".-----On the universal OMC magneto good spark will jump a gap of 1/4" or more with a snap that you can hear.---------That is a true test of the condition of the magneto.

 

[mmorasci]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

An adjustable tool huh? That's the first I've heard of something like that. The "tester" I have I've used for years, it kind of looks like a plug but it doesn't thread in, it clips on to a ground plane, and the gap, though rather large (if i remember correctly) Isn't adjustable. The crisp snap of the spark is clearly audible even to my poor hearing but perhaps an adjustable gap tool is worth looking into.

Can I assume you're suggesting a possible change in spark intensity as to why the ease of starting has changed?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

testing these in a barrel/test tank? It sounds to me like the 3 is pretty much right on track (3-5 pulls or so). Want to be sure the gas and oil is fresh and the mix rich enough (16:1) and has the right heat range plugs (J4Js in the original, I think). Run it in the barrel until it get up to temp., then dial in the mixture screws to get it running as slow as you can. Don't overrev.

 

[mmorasci]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

So far, I haven't done any testing on the boat with the 3HP, only in a tank. If winter comes to an end any time soon I'll get to the lake for trials. Fuel is newly purchased as was the oil. Mix is at 24:1 with a water cooled oil (Penzoil). Plugs I'll have to look up the number to be sure but I think they were specked at J6J at the local NAPA auto parts. As for adjusting the Low/High jet settings, I haven't done a thing to them as I was trying to understand why the starting went from WOW to normal in about 3 dozen starts and a hour or so of run time. I haven't checked the packing nuts either yet to see if maybe they've loosened up any.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

My first guess would be perhaps you are a bit too rich maybe. Great for cold starts though. Wait until the motor has been tuned on the water, needles may need leaning. Start with the high speed, then do the low second.

Another thought was that your coils were failing when warm, but after reading that you overhauled the ignition, not as likely. Sometimes there is a tiny fracture in the secondary winding, which is a long, thin wire. When the coil heats up, the fracture seperates more, limiting or destroying spark.

If you have a gauge, test compression cold and dry like when you do your initial start, then again after running and it takes a bit more to get started for your warm start up.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

agree on the carb adj -- I've found that leaning it out (needle turned clockwise) is where the improvement is found, even when it sometimes seem counter intuitive. guessing you will find a good runner (and starter) there, after you get it dialed in. The J6Cs will work, think a slightly higher heat range though. (J6 vs J4, I mean).

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

BTW, My 3s are pre-59s, and that should call for 16:1 mix. In any case, mine run well on that. 24:1 is undoubtedly safe enough (if I'm right on the 16:1), but it's possible that the motor could run better on a slightly richer oil mix (albeit, with a leaner carb adj(!)). I have a '56 Wizard (Merc mfg) super 5 that needed a richer mix than I was using to start and run well. I have some NOS J4Js and J6Js that I use, replaced by the C designation. A couple of AOMCI friends told me years ago that the old J4Js ran cooler than the newer C's, but don't know that for a fact -- and again seems counter intuitive, as a rich mix would seem to call for a hotter plug....

 

[nwcove]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

i have found that prolonged barrel runs , without a breeze or a fan, can dirty points.....not to mention making fine tuning difficult.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

would make sense, nwcove, as she's inhaling exhaust. I don't think I've noticed that, but I'm always outside when testing so maybe the air circulation outside makes a difference. I'm usually pretty happy with idle results, tuning in a barrel. But since you can't fully adj. the high speed side (where adjustable) in a barrel, I end up adjusting the HS in a boat test, then readjusting the low speed. Think i enjoy the tinkering, to a point, more than the fishing.

 

[mmorasci]

Re: Help - Need advise on Starting old Evinrude/Johnson outboards

A lot here to digest. Sounds like the consensus is to wait until I get the motor on the boat, dial in the jets and go from there.

Dare I ask for best recommendations for cold weather starting (this is usually where most of my frustrations are, when the outside air temps drop to at/below freezing) for these 3hp engines? I don't believe I've ever run less than 24:1mix on any motor. Should I expect to see any marked improvement by rich ending up the oil mix?

Thanks for all the great feedback so far.

Mike

 

[jbuote]

First suggestion, is to start a new thread with your question. This thread is a bit over 3 years old.. (Help Tip section at top of the forums page is good)
​When you create your new thread, state the model number, as well as anything you've tried so far, and you'll get the help you need.
​Expect this thread to be closed by a mod soon..