DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

[buzzcatcher]

I am in desperate need of some help. Rebuilt carburetor and now have electrical problems... Please advise. Your help is greatly appreciated. Below are the steps I took:

-Disconnected battery cables
-Removed starter solenoid-only removed wire from one end (to reach bolt to remove starter bracket)
-Remove starter bracket-removed positive battery cable (to reach carburetor bolt)
-Rebuilt carburetor (replace gaskets, float, etc).
-Install carburetor
-install starter with bracket
-install starter solenoid (all wires back in original location)
-Connected cable to battery-hand tighten (yes in the correct location)
-connect fuel line and primed bulb.
-Insert key, pressed in and turn
-Heard a click, and heard a zap. Saw smoke coming from my solenoid and a second after saw a spark at the positive battery terminal. Upon noticing the spark at the positive battery terminal, i watched the cable get really hot melting the lead that attached the terminal screw post.

After reading several forums and post, I replaced the starter solenoid, cleaned all connections with wire brush, replaced the battery terminal with a replacement bolt-on style clamp with new terminal post, bought a new wire harness fuse (original seemed ok but replaced regardless). I wrenched tighten cables to the battery to secure connection. Fired it up again and this time, i heard a click, no smoke at all but heard a spark. This time my negative terminal post melted. The wires were really hot.

I am now out of options. Could it be my starter? Is it possible that my starter is bad? If my starter is bad, would it create heat in which melted both my positive and negative terminal post? I am very bummed and do not know what else to do. Can you share your expertise on what is causing my battery terminal post to melt and why my starter doesnt fire the motor? Thanks for your advice!

 

[durban]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

you have a dead short some where , a meter will find it , check all + for down to earth

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

-Insert key, pressed in and turn
-Heard a click, and heard a zap. Saw smoke coming from my solenoid and a second after saw a spark at the positive battery terminal. .................. Fired it up again and this time, i heard a click, no smoke at all but heard a spark. This time my negative terminal post melted. The wires were really hot.

Since it only happens when you press the key it sounds to me like you have wired up the solenoid wrong.
Id say you probably have the neutral cable attached to the solenoid and not the engine ground

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

POst a photo of your solenoid connections as since it only happens when you are turning the key something has to be wrong there but you must of wired something up right for the click to happen

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

I suppose if your starter had a dead short in it to ground this could happen too, but normally a short will allow a bit of a spin by the starter as ive never seen one go completely shorted to earth but im not saying that couldnt happen

 

[buzzcatcher]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

you have a dead short some where , a meter will find it , check all + for down to earth

Thanks for all of your advice. Im new to boat engines so pardon my ignorance if I am clueless of the terms and lingo. So here is what i did...

Took my meter and tested battery and it was at 12.6v which is good. Tested the + cable that runs to the starter solenoid and still got 12.6v. I then tested both sides of the start solenoid. One side going into the solenoid read at 12.6v and then i tested the other side (output) and got nothing. No reading at all. Do I need to have the key in to test the output of the start solenoid?

Should I also test the wires that goes to the key switch?

also, what do you mean by the term "down to earth"?

 

[dingbat]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

Thanks for all of your advice. Im new to boat engines so pardon my ignorance if I am clueless of the terms and lingo. So here is what i did...

Took my meter and tested battery and it was at 12.6v which is good. Tested the + cable that runs to the starter solenoid and still got 12.6v. I then tested both sides of the start solenoid. One side going into the solenoid read at 12.6v and then i tested the other side (output) and got nothing. No reading at all. Do I need to have the key in to test the output of the start solenoid?

Ok, let not burn anything else up. Remove the battery cable from the solenoid. Put your meter on capacitance and check for continuity between the input (positive battery cable) and the output (wire going to starter). With the key switch off, there should be no continuity. With the key switch on, there should be continuity.

 

[buzzcatcher]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

Ok, let not burn anything else up. Remove the battery cable from the solenoid. Put your meter on capacitance and check for continuity between the input (positive battery cable) and the output (wire going to starter). With the key switch off, there should be no continuity. With the key switch on, there should be continuity.

So i tested for continuity and whats weird is that I get continuity when key is turned on and off. Could it be that I wired my solenoid wrong? Please see pictures below. This is how I installed it. My iphone might have rotated the pictures left so please excuse the image rotation.






The top large terminal where you see my thumb is the + battery input along with two red wires ( i think one goes to the choke solenoid and the other has a fuse going to the harness key switch.

The second smaller terminal is a yellow wire ( Not sure where that goes but its bundled up with the harness)

The third smaller terminal is a ground wire that is connected to the engine

The forth terminal (not seen, goes to the starter)

From the looks of this, does everything seem ok?

 

[Fed]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

The solenoid ground terminal looks bent/broken?

 

[buzzcatcher]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

The solenoid ground terminal looks bent/broken?

Thanks for your response. It looks broken but its not. The wire is attached by a 90 degree angle terminal.

 

[Fed]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

Then I'd be having a serious look at the starter motor positive terminal, could you have screwed the stud around causing a short circuit to ground inside it?
You could disconnect it at the starter for a test.

 

[wrench 3]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

Can you take a picture of the wire where it attach?s to the starter, please.

 

[buzzcatcher]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

Can you take a picture of the wire where it attach?s to the starter, please.

here is a picture of the starter motor and the + cable attached.


One thing that I would like to mention is that the + cable going into the starter motor is short in length. When I removed the starter, what was weird was that I noticed the screw post that is part of the starter motor is able to pushed in. Meaning that the screw post is loose and not attached to the body of the starter motor. At one point, i probably pushed the screw inside (half way) into the body of the starter motor in order to remove the cable. Would that cause any damage?

 

[racerone]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

For one thing the cable lug should be between the 2 nuts !---Time to take the starter apart for inspection.-Not that hard to do.

 

[Fed]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

The very first thing on the stud (closest to the starter motor) should be an insulated washer.
Check it out at shop.evinrude.com

 

[buzzcatcher]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

The very first thing on the stud (closest to the starter motor) should be an insulated washer.
Check it out at shop.evinrude.com

WOW. I think you may have solved my rookie mistake! I attached the positive cable first then the insulated washer following the other bolts. I could have sworn this was how it was when removed but I think this was actually bringing the current to the body of the motor causing the short. I will try and swap it out and report back! Thank you very much in advance!

 

[wrench 3]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

Racerone is correct about the location for the cable eye. But if the stud locks into the square hole on the inside of the insulator and won't rotate when you pull it up, then you shouldn't have to disassemble the starter. From the starter out, you should have the insulated washer, the flat washer, a nut to hold the stud up into place, the cable eye, the lock washer, and finally the nut to hold the cable on.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

almost scared to say anything -- that's some serious stuff. I think, though, that the solenoid should have no ground connection at all. It is a switch, and as such is entirely on the positive side. If one of the local folks shows me wrong on that, I'll stand corrected -- but thinking that may be where the short is coming from. On a simple solenoid set up, the large pos. wire from the battery goes to one of the big posts on the switch, and the large positive wire going directly to the starter is connected to the other large post. The small posts have a smaller diameter (16 gauge or so) connecting them, and a similar leg to the large lug that connects to the starter. The only ground is the starter's engine ground at the motor. A critical connection I can't do from memory is the starter button on my setup, routing power to and through the solenoid, but there is no negative connection with the starter button either. I THINK the momentary starter button is connected (+) to one of the small posts on the solenoid, and the other pos wire is connected to the large post going to the starter.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: DESPERATE! NEED HLP 1983 Evinrude 35hp carb rebult turned into elect prob

almost scared to say anything -- that's some serious stuff. I think, though, that the solenoid should have no ground connection at all. It is a switch, and as such is entirely on the positive side. If one of the local folks shows me wrong on that, I'll stand corrected -- but thinking that may be where the short is coming from. On a simple solenoid set up, the large pos. wire from the battery goes to one of the big posts on the switch, and the large positive wire going directly to the starter is connected to the other large post. The small posts have a smaller diameter (16 gauge or so) connecting them, and a similar leg to the large lug that connects to the starter. The only ground is the starter's engine ground at the motor. A critical connection I can't do from memory is the starter button on my setup, routing power to and through the solenoid, but there is no negative connection with the starter button either. I THINK the momentary starter button is connected (+) to one of the small posts on the solenoid, and the other pos wire is connected to the large post going to the starter.

One of the small terminals on the solenoid is a engine ground, it completes the circuit from the starter switch in the control to create the electromagnetic circuit which lifts up the solenoid contact bar inside the solenoid.
There is no negative in the main heavy circuit which feeds the starter