1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

[speckman6408]

Hello Guys: I have the above motor and man it is trying my patience, which is about 1/32" long.
I have a good spark on both plugs-the spark is real blueish and it will spark 3/4" from the spark
plug port. I tried holding the end of one of the plugs and it gave me a good charge--enough that
I didn't repeat on the second plug. I have disconnected the rubber hose going into the carb and
the pump is pumping gas. It still won't crank! I have sprayed a little gas/oil mix into the carb
throttle, and it still won't crank. This motor has a rope pull and so I took the cover off and got me
a socket and short extension and put it in a 3/8" drill and it will turn the heck out of the motor, but
still I can't get it to crank. I also sprayed some gas/oil mix into the spark plug ports and I still
can't get it to crank. I checked the compression with both plugs out(the plugs are brand
new)and I am reading 120psi on the bottom cylinder and 125 psi on the top cylinder. I also had the
carp throttle open during the testing. Can someone please help me? I am 69 years old and need
to go fishing on the bayou. I appreciate and thank you for any input!
Do you know where you were 50 years ago today? I do, I was in basic training at Fort Polk, La.
Any one that has been there knows that the sand hills there, is a plague that Pharoah did not have
to endure!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

Compression of 120/125 psi on a 4hp model... doesn't seem right to me.

Spark plugs should be CHampion L77JC4 or QL77JC4 plugs gaped at .030 . THe "Q" indicates a supressor plug, prefered if you run various electronics that ignition noise might affect.

If you have compression, fuel, and spark, and the engine is in time.... it has to run. Even if the carburetor is fouled bad and way out of adjustment, spraying a fuel mixture thru the carburetor throat or directly into the cylinders... the engine would have to fire, UNLESS one is mistaken and the engine IS NOT in time.

This would be the case if the flywheel key is sheared or missing which would allow the timing magnets to be out of line.

Also... check the fuel to make sure there is no water contaminating it... and even though the compression is good (awfully high really), it's always possible that the head gasket has failed in some area and water is entering the cylinders via that method.

 

[speckman6408]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

Mr Joe: Thanks for helping out the ole man! Compression is high to me also--60 to 80PSI would be normal
for this motor. Just bought a new compression tester today to check the compression. I have Champion
QL77JC4 plugs gapped to .030. I pulled the flywheel and key is not sheared. Magnets are in position shown
on page 38 of maxrules.com manual of Johnson/Evinrude 2 cylinder models 1977-2006, 4-60HP models.
Just mixed gas/oil to 50:1 ratio--2.6 ounces oil to 1 gallon gas today. If the head gasket were blown would
the compression be as high as it is? I am cleaning the carb and will probably change the head gasket tom-
morrow. Any other suggestions I will try. If the key were sheared would the shaft turn with the motor in
neutral? This thing has me stumped! Thanks again for your help!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

Rest assured that at 69, you're not an old man.... not yet. When you're 106, you might think about it though. I have plans to live to the age (at least) of 122. People who think old.... well, they're not around too awfully long after that.

No, if the head gasket were blown, the compression wouldn't be that high.... however, it shouldn't be that high in the first place. Have you or someone else had that head and/or block milled?

I mentioned the head gasket just in case water dropplets might show up on the spark plug electrodes.

And yes, even if the flywheel key was sheared, the shaft would still turn when using a manual or electric starter. It's still a tight fit, just not where it belongs.

If by chance you've had the components off of the timer base/armature plate (coils etc) notice the aluminum seat upon which they sit. There is a slight bevel at the top edge of the aliminum seat. The outer straight edge of the coils, sensors, (whatever), must align with the inside top edge of that bevel to be the proper distance away from the flywheel magnets.

 

[speckman6408]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

Rest assured that at 69, you're not an old man.... not yet. When you're 106, you might think about it though. I have plans to live to the age (at least) of 122. People who think old.... well, they're not around too awfully long after that.

No, if the head gasket were blown, the compression wouldn't be that high.... however, it should be that high in the first place. Have you or someone else had that head and/or block milled?

I mentioned the head gasket just in case water dropplets might show up on the spark plug electrodes.

And yes, even if the flywheel key was sheared, the shaft would still turn when using a manual or electric starter. It's still a tight fit, just not where it belongs.

If by chance you've had the components off of the timer base/armature plate (coils etc) notice the aluminum seat upon which they sit. There is a slight bevel at the top edge of the aliminum seat. The outer straight edge of the coils, sensors, (whatever), must align with the inside top edge of that bevel to be the proper distance away from the flywheel magnets.

Mr. Joe: Thanks again for your help! This motor is baffling me. I have no water droplets on the plug electrodes and
looking in the plug ports I do not see any in the cylinders. When I spray gas/oil mix in the throttle or plug ports, I do
see the gasoline on top of the water in the barrel. I bought this motor from a man who said it had been in his garage
for several years and had seldom used it. But you know how that goes. The motor has dark spots on the head cover
as if it had gotten hot, but if it had heat problems in the past would the compression be that high? After I bought this
motor I took it to the river and it ran perfectly until all of a sudden the river got shallow and I hit the sand bottom and
the motor suddenly quit and has not run since then. I will pull the fly wheel and check the components again. Thanks
again for your help! This is a real good site for dummies like me. God Bless!
P.S On one occasion a man said to me "pray for me" and I answered "I sure will-I need the practice and you need the
prayers"--of course I need the prayers as well.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

After I bought this motor I took it to the river and it ran perfectly until all of a sudden the river got shallow and I hit the sand bottom and the motor suddenly quit and has not run since then.

That spells out to me that possibly the crankshaft snapped or the flywheel key sheared.... (out of time). Double check that flywheel key.

 

[raczekp1]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

i had 4 hp sea horse johnson with 120 psi in both cylinders.

check if yo didnt cross spark plugs Leeds,

in front of carb is slow speed needle: should be set up at 1.5 turn out from gentle seated

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

I dont think it would be possible to cross the plug leads.... too short .

But if the HT coils have been removed and refitted in the wrong positions would that have the same effect ?
Or can they be connected wrongly on the low tension side
Often wondered about that on my 6hp

Hitting a sand bar wont explain it though !

 

[speckman6408]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

Hey Guys: I got the motor going! After I recleaned the carb, it fired
right up and runs pretty good, but it is hard to start with the rope pull.
It starts fine with a socket on the end of a 3/8" drill. It does not idle
real good but I will work on that. 2 questions: Mr. Joe Reeves said my
my camshaft may have snapped but would my main shaft turn if that
had happened? Is my motor suppose to spit water or stream water out
of the pee hole? Thanks for everyone's help--a site like this really saves
old timers a lot of money! God Bless!

 

[Crosbyman]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

did you also clean up the low speed fuel circuit ???

u need to remove the dime size plug ( top side core plug) air flush everything and reaseal with a new silver plug

clean all drip holes !!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

I got the motor going after I recleaned the carb, it fired
right up and runs pretty good, but it is hard to start with the rope pull.

It starts fine with a socket on the end of a 3/8" drill. It does not idle
real good but I will work on that.

Mr. Joe Reeves said my my camshaft may have snapped but would my main shaft turn if that
had happened? Is my motor suppose to spit water or stream water out
of the pee hole?

Strange... If cleaning the carburetor was all it needed in order to run. You said that it ran fine but stopped when you hit that sand bar, then wouldn't restart. The sand bar wouldn't have had any effect on the carburetor. Has this engine sat for a long time since hitting that sand bar?

Stranger yet... if the problem was simply the carburetor, spraying the fuel mixture in in plug holes or thru the carburetor throat should have resulted in the engine starting for a few moments anyway UNLESS you shot a great amount of fuel in there (flooding).

Hard starting and poor idle... adjust the carburetor as follows below.

I didn't say "camshaft"... I said crankshaft. The engine is a two stroke... there is no camshaft.

When the engine is cooling properly, water simply spits out those small holes in the back of the long exhaust housing.

(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)
(J. Reeves)

Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

 

[speckman6408]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

Strange... If cleaning the carburetor was all it needed in order to run. You said that it ran fine but stopped when you hit that sand bar, then wouldn't restart. The sand bar wouldn't have had any effect on the carburetor. Has this engine sat for a long time since hitting that sand bar?

Stranger yet... if the problem was simply the carburetor, spraying the fuel mixture in in plug holes or thru the carburetor throat should have resulted in the engine starting for a few moments anyway UNLESS you shot a great amount of fuel in there (flooding).

Hard starting and poor idle... adjust the carburetor as follows below.

I didn't say "camshaft"... I said crankshaft. The engine is a two stroke... there is no camshaft.

When the engine is cooling properly, water simply spits out those small holes in the back of the long exhaust housing.

(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)
(J. Reeves)

Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

The motor did sit for about a year after the sandy bottom incident but I always
keep Sea Foam mixed with my gas/oil mix--about 1 ounce per gallon. My fault
for saying camshaft instead of crankshaft--the beginning evidence of alzheimers.
The only way I got it started was with the drill and socket--I don't think
it would ever have started with the pull rope.
Crosbyman--I didn't take the plug out but I will get a new carb kit and take the
old ones out and clean and put new ones in. Thanks for your input!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 4HP Johnson J4RDHCEC cranking problem

The motor did sit for about a year after the sandy bottom incident but I always
keep Sea Foam mixed with my gas/oil mix--about 1 ounce per gallon.

Sea Foam, whatever.... that stuff just doesn't seem to do a job of keeping the carbuetor from gumming up when the engine sits a long time. Always a good idea to mention that sitting thing as that draws us right into the carburetor area.