'61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

[Sippen]

Hello,
Looking for some advise on this motor. Thank you for any help in advance.
Motor is labeled a Gale which is in the Johnny/Rudy family. (Model 40DE14B)

(earlier thread was focused on fuel pump, sorry for redundancy)

I had it on the water this past weekend. A little rough at low idle in gear. smooths out in high rpm and gets on plain fairly good (14' '58 tin Cadillac), then after 30 seconds it is bonking out starving for gas, a quick pump on the gas ball primer and it keeps going, another pump later and it keeps going... What should I check or replace next?

so far,
replaced fuel pump diaphragm (kit)
fuel line
female fuel line connector to motor

-The gas ball primer was not replaced, could this be the problem? looks in good condition
-took tank apart (older plastic). siphon looks ok. Not sure if purchasing a new tank and male fuel line connection should be done. (a little bit of rust on the male connector to gas tank)
-Should I open up the fuel pump again to inspect?

Thank you,
dave

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

HI Sippen. The fact that it picks up rpms when you manually pump the primer bulb is the tell tale sign that the fuel pump is failing. I'm not sure if you're particular model can be rebuilt. Here's a handy article that can give you a bit more info.

Rebuilding the OMC Fuel Pump

1961 Johnson RD-23 40 hp Outboard Motor Parts

 

[F_R]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

The pump (if original) on those motors was very well designed and worked very well. So, if you rebuilt it correctly, it should be ok. So, why isn't it pumping? Hard to say, except somewhere you have a restriction or leak in the lines. Any leak will admit air and although it is an excellent fuel pump, it can't suck gas if it is sucking air.

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Thank you KFA and FR for confirming my thoughts.
I will look for any other possible air leaks and open up the pump again.

Any tips on cleaning the pump or things to look for/do?
It looks fairly simple. Putting it together last time though was tricky and I'm wondering if a spring or cap is turned a little.

Once it's running good, is this a good motor to keep for the long haul? (with proper maintenance of course)
(read the mid 80's to mid 90's were more reliable.. but that's for another thread)

Thanks Again,

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Took the fuel pump apart cleaned it and carefully put the "kit" back together. fired it up and she ran better than before, a bit rough at low idol. i decided to run seafoam through it to Decarb it (.75 gal gas, .25 seafoam + oil). Smoked and rumbled like it was going through an exorcist.. Did a warmed up compression test and shows 112 and 114.

Few hours later turned it over on fresh fuel/mix and it won't fire up. Fresh week old plugs looked a bit wet and dark, wiped them off and again no go.

Did I junk up the carb?

I may as well clean it all up. Im running the carb and plugs in an ultra sonic bath and picking up a carb kit. I plan to install new points and spark plug wires if i can get the darn flywheel off. I will also replace the gas lines on the engine.

Replace or clean up anything else?

Thanks!

 

[ronboonville]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

If it has a pulse line like my gale 35hp make sure it doesn't have a hole underneath on the backside, and if it has the glass bowl replace the sock filter. my pump kit included it.

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Hi Ron,
Gas pump kit had a sock filter included. Picked up a carb rebuild kit and that also included a sock filter.. odd. (napa)
I am not familiar with pulse line (mine is branded as a Gale tho), googled it but still not clear.

"make sure it doesn't have a hole underneath on the backside"

Hole? are you talking about the hole on the back side of my fuel pump?


I assume this is for the diaphragm to breath and move.. I'm not clear which hole you are talking of.

Flywheel finally popped off, Amen to that.
Time to put the carb back together.

Thanks for your help!

 

[F_R]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

He is talking about the pulse hose that runs from the diaphragm chamber, around the rear of the cylinder head, to the nipple on the lower intake bypass cover. Those must be reinforced hose or they have a habit of blowing a hole in them. The hole you are looking at in the picture is to relieve pressure behind the diaphragm in that location. Having a senior moment right now, trying to remember what that spring chamber is called.

EDIT: Accumulator.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Here's another handy link or two.

Reviving a Vintage Big Twin - Part 1

3 HP Evinrude Lightwin Ignition System Tune-Up 1952-1967 (great ignition rebuild link. it's or a different model than yours, but all of the steps are the same)
5.5 HP Evinrude Johnson 1954-1954 Carburetor Tune-Up Procedure (good carb rebuild link)( don't be surprised if you have some leftover bits after doing the job. the rebuild kits often cover several different models with slightly different pieces)

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Thanks for the hose tip FR, I'm replacing that too.
those "senior moments" are more frequent here as well.

I've read numerous posts from you on this forum. Thanks for all your help and insight! so much to learn..

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Excellent kfa,
The "How To" with pics is huge help! seems like my time is 80% reading and 10% wrenching. the other 10 I don't know where went..

 

[kodibass]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

When I have these types of issues I always run the engine out on the water with the fuel tank / hose raised well above my power head, helps pin-point toward the fuel system anyway. good luck

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Thanks Kodi, will do that after I have it back together and if it's still an issue.

While rebuilding the carb and cleaning it up, the top jet screws in but the metal ring that holds the jet in came out with the jet.
Cleaned up my back up carb it too did the same thing.


Shouldn't this be secured inside to hold the jet? If so, what would secure it?
Cleaned this using an ultrasonic bath.
thanks for your help,

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Hi Sippen. The smooth, round, barrel piece the needle passes through in the lats pic is supposed to be like that. It is held in place by the friction from the packings and the brass nut the needle passes through. Here are some handy links.

Johnson Carburetor Group Parts for 1961 40hp RD-23 Outboard Motor (notice parts 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

5.5 HP Evinrude Johnson 1954-1954 Carburetor Tune-Up Procedure
scroll down a little past the half way point the section titled "Install Packing Washers and Nuts for High and Slow Speed Needles" for some pics.

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Ok, I feel better. thanks kfa.

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

I have my carb cleaned up and put back together, so now I'm putting in fresh points and condensers. Coils look good.

I see one black wire runs from the points (one point) and connects to this spot


the other black wire is connected to the other point and out the bottom but is cut and taped off.
I do know that when the key is turned off the motor keeps running so I have touched the choke to kill it.
Is this lone wire suppose to go to the ignition switch?
I have looked at schematics but am not certain about it.
thank you!

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Hello again Sippen. Glad you got the carb put back together. The wire and device in the pic is the vacuum cut off switch which is used to prevent a "runaway" motor situation. I believe you should also have a black, push-button kill switch on the face/side of your motor as well, but it may have been replaced/removed over the years which would probably explain the single random taped off wire. There should be a pair of small, black wires coming out from beneath the flywheel and connecting to the backside of the switch. If not, you'll need to pull the flywheel and replace the wires and install a new switch. Not to worry, it's an easy DIY job. In fact, I've added a push-button lanyard killswitch like the one in the pic below, to all of my vintage motors. It adds an extra layer of safety and security to your motor too. You can run the lines anywhere you like and mount the button on the helm, rather than the motor if you prefer. You can get on like in the pic below off of amazon.com for about $10. Worth every penny.

 

[Sippen]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Hi KFA, Thanks again for your help!! wish i was in FL 55 deg up here.. in Aug!

Been reading and found the same regarding the safety vacuum cut off switch.

So if install another line to each point (in addition to the wire connected to the vacuum and one point), run the two new lines out and into the safety kill switch, and continue the two wires on to the ignition? (seems like one wire would do it)
Connecting the two wires anywhere in the path would likely cause the vacuum switch to kill both cylinders right?

Been over thinking the One Wire kill solution, but the vac is messing me up.

thanks,

 

[HighTrim]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

You are also missing the pulse line from that cut out switch? Or did you just remove it temporarily? It attaches to the barb on the bottom.

The black wires don't go directly from the points to the key switch. 1 does, the other goes to the cutout, then another black wire goes from the same post on the cutout to the other M post on your key switch. Does you key switch have 2 M posts on it?

Vent open on your tank right?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: '61 Johnson 40 hp some help during my nickel dime ride.

Here is a general idea. If you need a full wiring diagram let me know.