2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

[LeeGeor]

I have some issues with the tilt and trim on a 2001 Johnson. It has the small engine tilt and trim
unit. It does not maintain trim so I assume that the cylinder is leaking or there is air in the unit. I removed the top plug
and some air did come out and some fluid. Well I decided to drain the unit and had the motor locked in the high
position. I removed the bottom plug slowly and got blasted. Well I drained the unit and now am trying to refill the unit
with little success. I have tried adding fluid and working the trim switch up and down only to have the fluid come out.
Do I replace the upper plug after each fill as I know some units bleed themselves or keep it Off?
Thanks
LG

 

[gulfhunter1967]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

Lee,
This is what I've experienced (mine are 225hp) but, there is a screw on the left hand side that is the air bleeder, is supposed to be closed and tight, with the motor tilted and secured open the top fill cap and fill till it over flows, re-install the cap if you push the "up" button it should move up a little, then cycle the trim up and down (it might jerk some) but get it up again, refill again and cycle up and down one time, then bring it up and VERY CAREFULY and out of the way, loosen up the air bleed screw, the motor will rush down, you will hear the fluid travel back to the reservoir. The fluid is pumped from the reservoir to the cylinder and and from cylinder back to reservoir, it's simply how it works. If you have a leak, trust me you will see it, in that case seals and "o"ring need replacement.
good luck

 

[RRitt]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

can you identify your engine better?

 

[hidef]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

What is the model number of your engine?

 

[LeeGeor]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

Lee,
This is what I've experienced (mine are 225hp) but, there is a screw on the left hand side that is the air bleeder, is supposed to be closed and tight, with the motor tilted and secured open the top fill cap and fill till it over flows, re-install the cap if you push the "up" button it should move up a little, then cycle the trim up and down (it might jerk some) but get it up again, refill again and cycle up and down one time, then bring it up and VERY CAREFULY and out of the way, loosen up the air bleed screw, the motor will rush down, you will hear the fluid travel back to the reservoir. The fluid is pumped from the reservoir to the cylinder and and from cylinder back to reservoir, it's simply how it works. If you have a leak, trust me you will see it, in that case seals and "o"ring need replacement.
good luck

Thanks gulfhunter
Seems to have worked. No leaks and motor is holding position. For all those having this same issue I will explain how I used gulfhunters directions. I have not found any other directions on the web. The engine I have is a 2001 Johnson 50 hp two stroke model # J50VLSIB. The tilt/trim unit is what they call the small unit. and can be found on other models and hp. The problem I was having was the motor would not hold trim or stay up. Probable cause would be low fluid, air in system or leaking seals. I figured to start with the easiest solution hoping it would same me some money.

I used a large tip screwdriver and a tube of tilt/trim lube. To make things easier we inserted a 24" piece of tubing into the tube. I had drained all of the old fluid out of the unit the hard way, meaning if anyone knows the proper way they may want to add to this post. I got a fluid bath.
Following gulfhunters directions we repeated this process about 6 to 8 times. It helps to have two people but not necessary. At first the motor was unable to lift so some muscle was used to lift it. Like I side it took at least 6 cycles
for it to really start working.
Thanks again for your advice,
Lee

 

[RRitt]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

i think that J50PL is the OMC single ram system as used on 30-50HP 1989-2004. I could not find a J50VL listed.

Air bubbles can get trapped in the gearcase after draining. They cause the motor to spin freely without pumping any fluid. If the system is filled with fluid and left upright for a few hours then the air bubbles will float clear of gearcase. Systems with air bubbles or low fluid are not associated with drift down or failure to hold. Failure to hold position is usually either MRV or check valve. Failure to reverse direction is usually check valve. If the problem went away then it was probably because you tightened the MRV. Check valves problems do not fix themselves without taking system apart and replacing poppets and (sometimes) seats.

 

[LeeGeor]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

Now that you mention it I do believe that the MRV was not shut completely
to begin with. Thanks for the info. Does anyone know how to release the pressure off
of this unit in case a rebuild needs to be done?

Thanks,
Lg

 

[hidef]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

Before tearing into the system properly fill the unit with the engine tilted all the way up and locked in place add fluid to the reservoir. With the MRV all the way closed cycle the power tilt 6 times holding the button down for 10 to 15 seconds after the piston has stopped moving. This will get the air out of the system. If you do not have the factory service manual I highly suggest you get one. You can order it from Marine Engine dot com.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

Now that you mention it I do believe that the MRV was not shut completely
to begin with. Thanks for the info. Does anyone know how to release the pressure off
of this unit in case a rebuild needs to be done?

Thanks,
Lg

put unit into bench vice.
using 12v lawn battery fully lower system.
fully open mrv to relieve pressure.
remove cylinder cap using 3" adjustable spanner wrench such as williams 34-154
pour out fluid from ram
remove four motor bolts and remove motor.
motor may be painted into place. gently use sharp chisel to break seal 1/64" at a time.
pour out fluid from gear chamber taking care not to lose driveshaft or filter
top cylinder seal should be replaced with 16x24 metal clad rod wiper in lieu of OMC provided radial shaft seal
piston shaft seal (halfway down cap) should be replaced with #208 nitrile oring in lieu of OMC provided U-cup
filler cap seal should be replaced with #111 nitrile oring in lieu of OMC provided metric seal
if there is any water evident in oil, then all ball bearings should be replaced with industrial 3/16" grade precision balls
if 1992-2004 system has difficulty seating mrv then sealing tip should be replaced with #008 BN90 oring
old mrv tip seal should be turned out on precision metal lathe. tiny screwdrivers can suffice. Do not scratch surface.
if system exhibits any bleed down of difficulty reversing direction then new poppets should be installed.
if existing poppet seats do not measure between 5mm and 5.3mm then new poppet seats should be installed.

 

[LeeGeor]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

Gulfhunter, RRitt, and hidef,


Thanks for all the information, all is well.

Lg.

 

[LeeGeor]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

All is not well yet. I have taken the unit to a boat repair shop and so far it has cost me almost $1800.00. When I purchased the boat I was not aware that the boat was used in salt water. My fault, I should have researched things better. To late, The boat still will not hold trim on plane. Most of the cost was due to removing the unit from the transom. Pins were frozen. They have replaced the motor and rebuilt the cylinder. I have taken it back once since the rebuild and now it will have to go back again, still will not hold trim. They thought that they hand put some of the seals in wrong so the worked on it, took it to the river this evening and it is actually worse. It would hold position at 5mph before but now not at all. So far they have worked on it with out complaining, and it has been in the shop for a total of three weeks. What should I suggest to these guys or should I just keep my mouth shut.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 2001 Johnson 2 stroke tilt and trim question.

post a picture so I can know for sure that you have factory power trim and not manual assist or aftermarket.

if it is a factory power trim system then I would tie a string with weight to the propeller and leave it in driveway for a few hours. Go back out after dinner and see if the engine has dropped. Bleed down versus not bleeding down is a major fork in road when it comes to troubleshooting a rebuild. Rebuilds on this system are fairly easy and reliable if you replace the check valve poppets.
Poppet Kit Evinrude Johnson Trim Tilt 25 35 40 48 50 HP | eBay

If it does bleed down then I would be putting in new check valves and MRV seals. If it has not, then it is going to be something more complicated. My first guess would be a rusted spring somewhere.

 

[ssportsmfg]

LG, I know it is months later, (just saw your post) but yesterday I just did basically the same thing you did. (same outboard you have) I had an issue on my last fishing trip on the Mississippi, where the outboard didn't want to tilt up. It did, but slowly. So when I got home I started working on it. I have the owners manual for the Outboard, that came with the boat, but it is pathetic to say the least. I, like you decided to drain and replace the hydraulic fluid completely as it was apparent that this boat had not been maintained properly. When I pulled the bottom plug, which the owners manual said to do to replace the fluid, I also got blasted, when looking in the hole I saw an "o" ringed hole inside a ring that had 4 slots on the outside edge.

My machinist's mind said hum-mm, why the O ring? So I started looking immediately on the ground and found a small beige nylon needle valve (looked like a large float bowl needle) and a spring. I cleaned these and set them aside on the top of the casting deck. I let it finish draining for an hour or two. I then put in the needle valve, then the spring, and then the bottom cap. Before I had started I had raised the tilt all the way up and set the tilt lock to hold it up. I read this thread and no one mentioned these parts, and with your having gotten a fluid bath like me I figured you also shot your valve and spring out of the hole.

I filled the reservoir with new oil until it began running out the top hole, then closed it up. Hit the up and down trim buttons but it did nothing. After much fiddling around, and having noticed the small screw to the left of the bottom oil drain cap with the retainer snap ring, I figured it must be some type of valve, I opened it a small amount and hit the down trim button, I could hear a gurgling sound as the oil was being pumped, but knew that it was air I was hearing. What I finally worked out to both eliminate all the air in the system and get it full and working properly was this following sequence.

1 Close the relief valve and fill the reservoir. (bottom left screw with retaining ring)
2 Activate the up or down tilt buttons and then open the relief valve while running the tilt, until you no longer hear the gurgling, then close the relief valve.
3 Repeat until your tilt begins to work. Alternate between the up and down tilt buttons to fill the hydraulic system and get the air out.
4 It may take awhile, and more fluid than you think. I probably (didn't count) did this at least 15 times to get the air out and completely fill the system with the new oil.
5 As someone else mentioned let the system "rest" for 10 minutes or so after you fill it several times to let the air bubbles rise out of the system. Each time I opened the top plug to add more oil, it hissed air and the oil was white with foam, so take your time and allow the tiny air bubbles to come to the top of the reservoir.

Each time I ran the tilt after adding oil I ran the tilt for probably at least around 10 seconds. It took awhile but my tilt is working perfectly and holding position again.

HTH