Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

rtpassini

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I'll try to give the cliff notes.

a few weeks ago, ran out of gas so I switched to the other tank which has its own line. it never started. I had to pour the fuel from the "bad" tank to the good one. Fired right up.
Got home and made sure everything was good. I could get fuel to spray out of the connection and everything.

Went out today. Fired up like normal. Got out to a spot and decided to test out the other tank again. Once again nothing. Except now, the other (good one) couldnt even get it to start. Someone thankfully towed us in (took about 30 minutes). Once at the dock, I tried it again. and it fired up.

Went to a different lake, got it in the water, it fired up. We ran a few laps and anchored to fish. After about 30 minutes I went to start it and nothing again. (the good tank) So here is where I'm at.

-Both lines have good pressure.
-Both have new gas
-Good battery life

While cranking, it just didnt sound right. Not broken, but when it would normally crank (and fire) it had a different tone to it.

Any ideas? I know I should test spark, but it seems to be intermittent. How do I go about it so that I can do it without the motor running. I have a spark tester with a "window". What should I do about checking fuel?

Many years ago the previous owner had everything swapped out so that it ran a fuel pump and you had to premix (instead of that VRO or whatever evinrudes of this year used) It always ran and started up great up until I tried switching the fuel line the very first time.
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

Check the primer system. Make sure it's not leaking, cracked, etc.
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

Yup, the bulbs are all good. Hold good pressure and gets it to the motor.
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

the black "cover" for the carbs is missing the bottom part of the cork gasket material. I dont think that would cause the issue but obviously I'll replace it.
 
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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

A ignition component may be going bad and fails when warm but works perfect when cool. Try to borrow a timing light and then run close to the dock, shut down and leave a few minutes for the heat to soak into the coils then if it will not start hook up the timing light and see if you have spark on all 3 coils (by clipping the timing light on the lead its a quick way to test.)
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

ignition component being most likely the coil?
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

If its ignition, then why was it when I put the gas into the "good tank" it fired right up no problem? (at least if the ignition was hot vs cold)
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

Just tested spark with a spark tester. People talk about "hot blue" spark. mine was orange. But was good sized. It even started up twice while testing. I had my wife literally just flip the key as fast as she could. no gas lines were even hooked up and it started up that quickly after the first one.
 
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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

If its ignition, then why was it when I put the gas into the "good tank" it fired right up no problem? (at least if the ignition was hot vs cold)

The time it took for you to pour the gas over was enough to allow the component to cool down a little or plugs to dry out.
Its always hard to help on a forum as its not like we are there seeing what you see so we have to use basics to try to help you find the problem. If the motor had not been tilted and it was running fine when you shut it down then we can only guess that the carb bowls still had fuel and the engine was warm so if we consider that a fail to start would most likely be flooding the motor or the lose of one or more sparks.
chinewalker is already suggesting the flooding idea in post #2 which is good idea and easy to check by pulling a plug when it will not start to see if its soaked. If it is flooding the primer would be the place to look as suggested
(primer on the evinrude is referred to as electrical solenoid that allows extra gas to the motor when you press the key in not the bulb that you pump up to prime the fuel system)

p.s On muffs you can run on 2 plugs when the exhaust is under water you will need all 3 to be firing so that's why I suggested the timing light test.

Remember this is just the first and most basic ideas as to what the problem is.
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

thanks for the clarification! where would i look to check for the electrical solenoid (primer) If this is a case of flooding, how do I start it?

Today during the no start issues, We had let it sit at least 20 minutes if not longer in between starting. with no luck, given, the sun was beating down if that matters at all, whereas the other time, it was cold and raining. But then again, what I was doing was most likely causing a flooding situation


Also today, I tried a lot of things differently. such as pushing the key in to prime (it doesnt seem to make a difference even without these issues) the lever up, down, tilting the motor up to empty the carbs, etc. It didnt seem to matter.

Also today when I first ran into these issues, it was to test that bad tank again. Maybe coincidence. I dont know at this point. haha.
 
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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

you would think that the engine had enough gas in the carb to start the motor no matter what tank you was using. You already discovered that you can start the motor with the fuel line disconnected today so that's why the fuel tank doesn't seem to fit the problem. Now if it started but only ran 20 seconds then refused to start that would be different. The fuel bulb does get stiff when the engine is not running?

On the 70 if you push the key when starting (warm) it will flood or at least mine would and then you have to wait a few mins with out trying before it would restart. The primer lever must be inline with the primer body for auto or it will add fuel all the time
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

Yup, it gets stiff. Even when I finally got home and took stuff apart (about 4 hours after the non starting issue) and pulled off the fuel filter on there, I could hear pressure release. It seems to hold it really well.
I was pushing the key in a lot while trying, so that may have something to do with it. But there still has to be more to the story. And I usually dont lift the lever if its warm. Only if it doesnt start. But at that point it seems to have bigger issues.

Here is a pic of what I think you are talking about. Is this the direction it should be?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28917583/2013-06-30 21.04.10.jpg
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

This boat is newer to me, but prior to this, I had been on 2 lakes with it, and it always started up and ran like a top.
 
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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

yep that's correct. You can lift the fast start lever just don't push the key in. So many things are different in the water compared to what the motor will do on muffs so my first suggestion is to carry a new set of plugs and a wrench just in case. It sounds crazy but its easier to find the problem when you are broke down.

Is this motor new to you...is it always a problem to start it when warm....does it run fine all the time (low and high rpms)....does it start easy when cold?
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

Yeah, Im just worried to get on the water with it now. haha.

Its newer to me, but like i said, it always had ran awesome. until I switched the tank....

It was never a problem to start when warm. Just turn key and boom. its running. started better than my car. haha. Ran great through the entire rpm. When we got to the second lake, I ran it at WOT for a few laps to make see how it did and it was great. Thats why I thought we were home free. but then it wouldnt restart.
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

The primer solenoid is a small black cylindrical plastic piece on the starboard side of the power head. It will have a purple wire running to it and three hoses attached to it. One hose is the IN and two smaller hoses are the OUT. One of the smaller hoses will run to a splitter, making three small hoses total, one for each carb. Check all hoses for cracks. Check primer housing for cracks. The red lever on the primer should be parallel with the housing for proper operation. When you hold the key in, a valve opens in the solenoid allowing fuel to squirt into the manifold behind the carbs. Too much prime and you'll flood it. Priming a warm motor will also flood it.
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

everything looked good. no cracks or signs of dry lines.

im thinking its got to be a fuel or spark issue. like I said, when it cranks, it doesnt sound right. and I know theres at least fuel getting to the carbs. maybe too much, im not sure.

If the spark issues were so expensive, i would just replace them. any thoughts on the ORANGE spark instead of BLUE? I see people saying it should be blue....
 

reelfishin

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

To diagnose a fuel vs. ignition problem you could simply spray some fuel mix into the carbs when its not starting, if it fires, its not getting fuel through the carbs.
If the plugs are wet with gas when it won't start its either flooded or there's an ignition problem.
The color of the spark could be due to how bright it was when you were checking it, check it in the shade or dark.

Is the spark on all cylinders the same? (Do they all have spark when it won't start?)
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

It is very clearly orange. I did it in my garage. The plugs were wet but this was 4 hours after the incident.

Im sure I will need to get it on the water to do the testing (warm it up) and see If I can replicate it.
But when I did the test the spark was all the same. But this was on the cold motor, not a warm one.

I took off the power pack and everything looked good. a few brown spots near solder connections. but Im guessing thats just from heat and solder when done. none of the wires were cracked or dry.

I tried to look at the stator and didnt see anything dripping down. or some ooze. But all I can see is metal components.
 

rtpassini

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Re: Had to get towed twice....need help. 85 evinrude 70 hp.

Do I need to disconnect the wires for testing from the "power block" (that thin piece with the cover and screws holding their connections)
 
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