1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

smith_daniel

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Hi,

I have recently rebuilt my outboard.

Everything seems to be good since the run in period except a few finalising points.

When idleing (Hot or cold) the engine will run well for a minute or two, then sounds like its miss firing, the revs drop and finally it dies. this can be overcome by increasing the revs with the rev leaver slightly raised.

I also find when going into gear it will stall, unless you increase the revs with the handle slightly, then drop the leaver, and instantly go into gear, it bogs a little at the lowest throttle position but then will be ok up to WOT.

I have tried reverse, and it stalls every time.


During the rebuild, i rebuilt the carbs, replaced the spark plugs, filters, fuel tanks and ensured fresh gas.

After doing the rebuild i gave it to a local marine mechanic to tune up, get the settings and timing etc all done and generally check over my work. ?100 later he told me it was all good and running well.

Initially i blamed the 25:1 oil mix during run in to be my problem regarding idle and gear selection, and to be fair its got much better since finishing the run in and coming back to a 50:1 mix of oil to fuel, but is far from gone.

Im desperate to get this issue sorted as we wakeboard alot off the boat and i hate having engine issues with people in the water! as a result i have called off using the boat until its sorted, if (GOD FORBID) something bad happens id never forgive myself!

I did ask the mechanic and he wasnt very helpful, he just told me to leave it a bit longer and see if it gets better??? (so far its had 10 hours run in on 25:1, and a good 10+ hours since on 50:1 and the problem still exists!?)

Any help appriciated.

Kind regards

Dan
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

I am new to this engine & experiencing `bogging down - stall if I ease into forward or reverse. No load Idle is at about 1000 rpm
I shortened rod adjuster for throttle opening slightly to pull throttles a bit while in neutral What is a good no load speed for this engine . Took it up to 1100 - still stalling going into gear Now will try 1200
It is also easy to flood if I keep key pushed for primer. Maybe just use primer momentarily & then a shot or two if it starts to die when still cold.
 
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smith_daniel

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Ok, so i managed to miss another weekend of glorious and VERY rare sunshine / flat water here in the UK...

The boat is getting more and more difficult to get into gear without it stalling out.

I have chased the guy who did the link and sync / settings and he's just not interested!

Any suggestions as to what i need to do please?

I have the manual, but it covers such a range of individual issues i just dont know where to start!

Thanks

Dan
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Ok, so i managed to miss another weekend of glorious and VERY rare sunshine / flat water here in the UK...

The boat is getting more and more difficult to get into gear without it stalling out.

I have chased the guy who did the link and sync / settings and he's just not interested!

Any suggestions as to what i need to do please?

I have the manual, but it covers such a range of individual issues i just dont know where to start!

Thanks

Dan

I had similar problem and adjusting 1/2 turn the rod ahead of the throttle opening cam raised my idle to 1100 & the problem is gone. The connector just pops off I think the same think can be accomplished with the throttle stop screw but it seemed to already be in as far as possible on my engine.
 

smith_daniel

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Ill give that a go...

Not keen on that connector, esp popping it off, nothing, nothing, nothing..... Bang! then you punch yourself in the face or loose a finger! HAHA

Hopefully that works!

Thanks again

Dan
 

WernerF

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Sep 5, 2011
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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

I shortened rod adjuster for throttle opening slightly to pull throttles a bit while in neutral
That's not the proper way to raise idle rpm. At idle all three carb butterflies must be closed. The carbs's idle circuits deliver a little more mixture than needed. The actual idle rpm is then archieved by retarding the spark timing.
On a multi-carb engine it wouldn't be accurate and reproducable enough to set the idle rpm by leaving the butterflies a crack open. Linkage play would soon mess up the adjustment.
So use the throttle stop screw to adjust idle rpm, about 800 rpm in gear in the water. If the throttle stop screw is already fully in and still not enough you may have a problem elsewhere, e.g. one cylinder not firing.
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Glad for help from those that know ! Will try a set up with all throttles closed - to date mixed results But throttle stop screw opens the throttles too ?? Now I;ve lost second cylinder - probably the ignitor as change of plugs did nothing When calmed down I will swap ignitors & see if problem follows ignitor from 2 Any meter readings that will telll me something? Always something =Water in gas through lousy vent on my Tracker builtin tank has killed me several times. I have raised the vent so wind less likley to blow water in Sure would perfer a fast idle lever like the Yamaha. I have a wire tied to throttle mechanism so i can pull it open while cranking Sure helps as I am prone to flooding if the prime is used more than a 1/2 second



That's not the proper way to raise idle rpm. At idle all three carb butterflies must be closed. The carbs's idle circuits deliver a little more mixture than needed. The actual idle rpm is then archieved by retarding the spark timing.
On a multi-carb engine it wouldn't be accurate and reproducable enough to set the idle rpm by leaving the butterflies a crack open. Linkage play would soon mess up the adjustment.
So use the throttle stop screw to adjust idle rpm, about 800 rpm in gear in the water. If the throttle stop screw is already fully in and still not enough you may have a problem elsewhere, e.g. one cylinder not firing.
 

clanton

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Check the engine compression. Middle cylinder may be low.


What kind/brand throttle is on the boat?
 
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Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Check the engine compression. Middle cylinder may be low.


What kind/brand throttle is on the boat?
Not sure waht you mean no fast idle just primer which is way too sensitive I added a wire to pull throttles open when cranking

Will do compression meanwhile swapped coils ( not ignitors!)& problem stayed with #2 Can Powerpak fail on 1 cylinder only?
 

clanton

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

The controls that do not have a fast idle lever, have this built into the control. Pull outward on the control handle at the pivit point, this will disconnect the shifting, and only allow the throttle to work.

Pack can fail on one are all three. Peak reading meter will tell you if pack is bad.
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Sorry duplicate
 

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Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Checked today Right on! compression VERY low ! Pulled head & found edge of piston chipped & loose fitView attachment 209274View attachment 209275 compared to other cyl So my ignition problem was not likely a problem at all! Will try & insert image now Does it look like a rebore or hone ? second picture next worst cylinder


Check the engine compression. Middle cylinder may be low.


What kind/brand throttle is on the boat?
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Checked today Right on! compression VERY low ! Pulled head & found edge of piston chipped & loose fitView attachment 209274View attachment 209275 compared to other cyl So my ignition problem was not likely a problem at all! Will try & insert image now Does it look like a rebore or hone ? second picture next worst cylinder

Nobody commenting on pictures ? Anyway I have now stripped her down ready for power head separation BUT Not loostening easy. I have used a sledge up top to try & rock the block loose - no luck I can hook up a lift to the hook on top & lift the whole back end motor boat & even trailor. Should I have to use a chisel? Any other tips or methods? I will add spray penetrating oil to soften the gasket glues & try again tomorrow
 

smith_daniel

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Nobody commenting on pictures ? Anyway I have now stripped her down ready for power head separation BUT Not loosening easy. I have used a sledge up top to try & rock the block loose - no luck I can hook up a lift to the hook on top & lift the whole back end motor boat & even trailor. Should I have to use a chisel? Any other tips or methods? I will add spray penetrating oil to soften the gasket glues & try again tomorrow

Have you undone all 6 bolts that hold the head in place? Have you also removed the nut that is underneath too???

If you look at the engine from behind, follow the line of the spark plugs... tucked underneath the head but above the bottom cowling is a bolt that needs removing as well as the 6 main head bolts!

Please stop smacking the block with a sledge! it wont last much longer keep wacking it! hahaha

Next you'll tell us you tried to use one of those saw's... the ones with one person either end and you cut it off! HAHAHA
(sorry couldnt help but take the pee!)

Good luck!

Try and source what caused the original issue! i rebuilt mine, used it all summer then on the last trip of the summer.... lost power etc etc etc ... first thing i did was look at the piston and YET AGAIN its back to where it was 8 months ago! Its very disheartening!
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Ho Ho Ho Funny! I only tapped lightly! You got me good . OK I now know about that 7'th bolt -Should make a difference ! Another thought - Put jacking nuts on the 6 bolts 0r 7 & with bolts back part way into block use jacking nuts to push up . Will post what works. The oil site glass was full but the VRO pump failed & also the alarm failed . I will never trust the VRO pump agin - will premix. The alarm should sound when you turn on the key ( I Think) Another test is to disconnect the temperature sensor on the head & ground the lead This should set off the alarm

It came apart with a lift on the top hook before I even lifted the full engine weight . Of course I tapped it with my sledge for good luck & this popped her loose
 
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clanton

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Do we have 2 posters 2 engines on this thread?

The 60 HP engine during the rebuild needs the service bulletins complied with. 6 bulletins I think, they have been posted on iboats, try search. Then after engine is running should be propped to turn close to 6000 rpms.
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

yes 2 posters & 2 engines I know off one service bulletin to move the water telltale to top corner of cover as there is a tendency to overheat . Others? will check

Now: I looked at parts 60 hp vs 70 & the only difference in part numbers I can find is larger mainjets . "megaphone & intake & reed valves" all the same So can I just change main jets to go 70? Timing change? Would have to reprop to higher pitch as I hit 6000 rpm B4 crashWill post this on a new thread


Do we have 2 posters 2 engines on this thread?

The 60 HP engine during the rebuild needs the service bulletins complied with. 6 bulletins I think, they have been posted on iboats, try search. Then after engine is running should be propped to turn close to 6000 rpms.
 

smith_daniel

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Glad to hear the sledge worked! ( ;) HAHAHA) that 7th bolt had me head scratching for a while! luckily I had plans that evening so left it and came back fresh the next day! otherwise i would have prob done the same brute force method! :)

Unfortunately yes, there are two posters with two separate engines!

I rebuilt mine at the start of the season (for the UK) and she was epic all year... then typically on the last wakeboard session of the year it overheated AGAIN! (obviously... sods law, i hadn't seen or known about the service bulletins, has anyone got a link please???)

The reason she survived all season then let go on the last session was that we thankfully wakeboard only 2 minutes from where we launch the boat... she gets time to warm up, then in we go! with all the getting in and out the boat i assume she never got hot enough to overheat (engine on, and off again when people get in and out of the boat!) This time however, we decided to go somewhere new (3-4 minutes WOT) got there and it wasnt that flat, so headed back to the usual spot (another 3-4 minute WOT).... as we arrived she suddenly lost power, the RPM dropped and then the tear jerking KNOCK KNOCK KNOCKING sound came!

She's been sat on the drive now over 3 months and I haven't got the motivation to do it all again... Didnt fancy rebuilding her AGAIN for her to just self destruct once again!!!

After the first rebuild i took her into the local Evinrude dealership / mechanics to check her over and sort the timing etc etc, he said it was sweet... although that's obviously NOT the case as the temperate and warning systems are NOT working.....(should have checked this out myself during the rebuild) either way... ill be buying more pistons, more rings, and spending more winter nights in a freezing cold garage repairing the old girl... again! haha

If someone would be kind enough to post all known service bulletins for this engine, i would be very greatful! That way i can see what hasnt been done, and Hopefully, why she keeps letting go at extended periods of WOT! (im guessing thats the problem??)

The only other bit of advice i can offer is to make sure there is two of you when returning the motor to the lower leg... getting the gasket to stay still, lining up and lifting the engine nearly killed me! not a job for one man and a lift!!

Also, the guide pin for the two half's of the crank only goes one way... its slightly angled, so it will not come off the crank if your pushing it the wrong way (cant remember which way is the right / wrong way! Sorry)

This may also sound obvious, but worth noting, Keep the con rods in order, note and mark each one making sure the caps go on the same way they came off! if you try and mate the wrong caps with the wrong rod, or accidentally get one the wrong way up they are pretty much useless as they will not allow the crank to spin freely and your engine will last all of 30 seconds!

Throw away the VRO! premix takes 30 seconds to premix your fuel and gives peace of mind!

The last bit of advice.... Carry out ALL the service bulletins... i didn't know of them, therefore didn't do them, and look where it got me! Man vs Engine round TWO! :(

If i find them first ill post them up on here for you mate!

Good luck!
 

Davee3

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Service bulletin info & other forum comments
I have a 1992 evinrude 60 hp outboard. The number 2 cylinder failed and I am in the process of rebuilding. I did a search and found that there is a common problem with the number 2 cylinder overheating and failing. I found info on the service bulletins and pretty much have the part numbers for all of them but one. It is SB 2271 and has to do with changing the timing and high speed jets. Apparently it only is for certain outboards. Also, someone mentioned that they changed the mid range jets also and had better results. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had access to the bulletins or could tell me the part numbers for the jets. The other bulletins are sb2225, sb2276 r1. If anyone has the bulletins or info on them, please let me know. I hate to put this thing back together and have the same problem happen again. Thanks.
SBI2013-10-01_1142.jpgSBI12013-10-01_1143.jpg

Dan - Hope you can buy oversize pistons you need - Did you go oversize on 1'st rebuild?


Re sb 2271 I have seen suggestion this calls for 1 size larger main jet in middle carb & change timing to 17 vs 19
SB2276r1 calls for tattle tale to top of block but I ahave also seen to top of water jacket cover SB2276r0?


Do we have 2 posters 2 engines on this thread?

The 60 HP engine during the rebuild needs the service bulletins complied with. 6 bulletins I think, they have been posted on iboats, try search. Then after engine is running should be propped to turn close to 6000 rpms.
 

smith_daniel

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Re: 1992 Johnson 60 TLENE Stalling, Missing and General setup problems.

Thanks for posting that! Ill have a read at work today :)

On both occasions its been the top cylinder that has failed.... I didnt go for oversize pistons no, but i will have to this time as any more honing and i think ill give myself more issues then its worth!

Im mostly worried about what is causing the top cylinder to go... i cant believe its coincidence. On inspection of the carb it was clean as a whistle. The fuel lines were all new at the time of the rebuild, and so were the tanks and filters (all thoroughly cleaned out before installation)

It seems that as soon as i use the boat at WOT for more then a couple of minutes she self destructs! She sat happily at 5,800 - 5,900 RPM when she was running and apart from some issues with idle (which were sorted by replacing some fuel clips) she seemed sweet!

The list of possible problems gets me so demotivated. I might just see if i can get a second hand head and crank casing and just bolt it on...

Possible issues
Weak fuel pump (not enough fuel to top therefore no oil as its now premix)
Insufficient cooling (service bulletin)
Thermostat failed
Ignition problems (but cant see that destroying a piston?)

Either way, Glad to hear your now getting yours going in the right direction bud!

Will keep you posted on my developments, if I finally get the motivation to save a 22 yr old engine for the second time.. HAHA
 
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