EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

[dickjorkey]

Hello folks,

Just thought to ask for a hand maybe one of you have already fixed this problem in the past. Today I have spent almost all morning trying to diagnose my issue. The issue does not seem to be the EMM, however it is related to it. First of all, I have the check light engine on. I am able to start the engine but after a few minutes it will shut off. Afterwards I am unable to turn on and this time the emm throws three lights. The check engine, low oil and the third I forgot what its called. Anyways, during this period the starter will not even crank so I have to wait a few minutes for the emm to cool down and startup again. (It seems as these three lights mean that the emm is too hot).

Hence I ascertained that no water is passing through the emm. But I have checked the water tube in the emm and its all clear. I found a post in this forum of someone recommending to disconnect one of the hoses while the engine is on to see if any water comes from the tube, and I do not see anything flowing.

So question!!! By me only turning on the water hose and turning the key to ignition, is this supposed to automatically cause water to flow through the emm? Also, there is one hose that does some type of pressure when the key is turned to ignition. Can someone tell me what that is? I'm afraid that the problem is related to that by not pumping water to the emm, thus causing it to overheat. Sorry for the long story, but I also want to help others in the future when they research this problem. I'm also posting a picture of the part I think might be damaged, but want someone to advice, Please!!

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

Thats the fuel pump /vapor canister...

By me only turning on the water hose and turning the key to ignition, is this supposed to automatically cause water to flow through the emm?

Only if engine is running....the lower unit water pump cools EMM.

 

[boobie]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

Figure out the water flow hoses then start the mtr up on a flusher. Pull one hose at a time to check the water flow for any blockage.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

thanks for the response, I will check on this..

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

After doing several research on this I have found several people talking about the vapor separator going bad or being clogged. This is the part I thought at first and showed on the picture. Thanks to the internet I found the name to it. I will check this little thing today and see how it goes...!!!

 

[daselbee]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

****....I encountered the exact same symptoms on a 2002 200 a few months back. Same exact lights, and behavior. What I found, before the owner junked the engine (didn't want it fixed), is that the EMM provides the ground for the fuel pump, and the starter solenoid. When the EMM is acting up, it basically is not allowing the +12v source that is powering the fuel pump and solenoid to find it's path through those two components and then to ground. I believe this is a known problem with the EMMs. In my case, all I had to do was leave the key on for a while, and the EMM heated up to the point the symptoms would show up. I believe you are looking at a new EMM. Call DFI Technologies (www.dfitechnologies.com) and see what they have to say. I bet they have seen this countless times. Regarding water flow thru the fuel pump/separator to the EMM, well maybe that was the start of the EMM damage. Your diagnostic printout should give you the max temps on the EMM...do you have that handy to refer to? I don't see mention of your model year, so the following applies if the engine is older than an '02. Whatever you do, PLEASE get the diagnostic printout of your INJECTOR PARAMETERS from the existing EMM. If you lose those parameters, (older than '02) you will be in a world of hurt, because Evinrude will not give out that information. You can get the parameters if the injector has a QR code on the label. (Another topic, for another post). Just get those parameters, ASAP.

 

[daselbee]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

****...I am so interested in the outcome of this that I would offer you this: I can bring another EMM (2004 model) and a PC with the diagnostic cable to Miami. We can try out my EMM on your motor and see if it fixes the issue. You will have to have your injector parameters, and you will have to do the physical swapping of the EMMs. You will also have to have any waterflow issues thru the vapor separator/fuel pump resolved, cause I don't want to burn up this EMM. I will take a half a day to do it....PM me if this interests you. I can come down almost anytime.

 

[multimech]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

That is the three finger salute. Your EMM needs replacement. It most likely is an overheated component that breaks connections when it heats up. It is a goner. Send it to BRP and get another one. Don't trust DFI technologies. I have sent multiple EMMS to them with this exact problem and it was not fixed.

You can't swap injector profiles with daselbee's EMM because there is a built in screw up from BRP. You must get new injector profiles from them, and they won't give them to you because yours are used. You can't save your old ones and use them, the engine will run like ****. I know I do this all of the time. Sorry guys, don't mean to rain on your parade.

 

[multimech]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

Wanted to share further info on changing the injectors with old profiles (saved from one engine). When you install them, they will install okay, and the engine will run. Do an engine report and compare it to the original report. You will see the profiles have skipped a few digits and now are not what they were originally. This is why the engine will not run well. Didn't want to sound like arrogant.

I have encountered this problem saving old profiles and putting them on a donor EMM. Always have to call BRP to get them to help me out. I work for a dealer though and we can do that if we have a very good reason to do so.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

thank you all for the replies, it's very helpful. So far I found that indeed there is water flowing through the EMM.

the check engine light goes on as soon as i turn the key to ignition...!

In regards to running reports.... I Tried creating my own serial cable to the connector on the engine I guess called Deutsch if I'm not mistaken. But, i am not quite sure if I connected to the right plug as I couldn't get the software to read the emm. I will buy one from Ebay but I would still need some info on the right connector for the engine. I read around that the engine must be turned on for the emm to connect to the diagnostic software successfully. Is this true? Because I tried turning on the engine and instead it made a bad circuit in the battery. Does anyone have a picture of where the serial cable goes connected?


oh and btw DASALBEE, I also have a 2002 200

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

is this the right connector? If so, I was connecting to the wrong port.

 

[multimech]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

That is the correct connector. The key must be on and the EMM powered up to connect to the software. A check engine light at key on is an active code thrown by the EMM, it may or may not be related to your current problem.

You got the three finger salute. That means the EMM gave up the ghost. You can't start it because the EMM is not working at that moment. Even without the 3 finger salute the EMM may be unable to connect at the time you are connecting to it, thus no connection when hooked up.

The EMMs on "Fichts" are notorious for overheating and loosening up part of the board. It may connect again at some point when it is cooled down, however when it reaches a higher temperature the connection breaks and gives the 3 finger salute. The damage is already done and is not caused by a current overheat problem. I work with these engines every day of the week. The only solution is to either send the EMM out to D.F.I, whom I have no confidence in or send it to BRP and have them send you a remanned one, with injector profiles installed correctly and working as they should. You would have to go through a dealer for this option.

I may be totally out in left field on this, but I don't think so. If you successfully resolve this issue without replacing the EMM, I sure would like to know the details.

 

[daselbee]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

The cable has three wires in a triangular Deutsch connector located in top of the engine STBD side just a little below the flywheel edge, almost back to the head/block mating line. It has a dummy plug in it to keep out dirt. One wire is ground (black) and the other two wires are send data and receive data. (TX and RX in computer-ese). If it doesn't communicate, swap the two TX and RX wires. If it still doesn't communicate, then there is an incompatibility in the serial port you are using. Modern computers don't have serial ports anymore, and most ppl buy a USB to serial adapter...that's where the incompatibility lies. If you DO have a serial port, then there is probably something wrong with your EMM regarding communications port.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

I was connecting it to the wrong port so I believe that's why it wasn't connecting.. (duhh ) Today I will try the new port. But dasalbee the the digram I found for the serial cable says that I should connect DC to pin 1, TX to pin 3 and DT to pin 4. But you're mentioning that I need ground tx and rx and this is what I thought from the beginning since rx and tx is needed to send/receive data. I will try it this way tonight and see how it goes. I want to find out what my error is about.

 

[daselbee]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

You must be talking about the 9 pin d-sub serial connector end. I was talking about the Deutsch engine end. I bought a nine pin serial cable (already made up) , cut off the male end, hooked three wires up to a Deutsch three pin matching the engine end. I do not remember the serial wiring...but I do believe 3 and 4 are TX and RX.... Look it up...Google is your friend.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

so, i was able to connect to the emm. The error code i got is 37 (water in fuel).

Any clues on how to get this out or where I should start?

Another status I had in red was something about the oil. I couldn't take screenshots of the reports as I lost connection and can't connect again. The gauge turns on the oil, hot & check engine lights after I connect the serial cable. I'm thinking it might be the cable that I created is screwed up. At least I got to see the error.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

btw the diagram for the cable is:

E-TEC EMM Cable to Laptop Serial Port

C <-------red--------------------< 2 RX --> input

A <-------black------------------< 3 TX <-- output

B <-------shield-----------------< 5 GND

|--< 1 DCD --> input
|
|--< 4 DTR <-- output

DB9F RS-232 SIGNALS

 

[multimech]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

There is no code or condition that will light all three lights that you see in regular working mode. It is telling you the EMM has a problem.
That problem is most likely a connection that is lost when it heats to a certain temp. Abnormal.

The "oil fault" that was in red is another red herring. The engine cannot monitor oil when it is not running that is normal. This is normal and will show on and off while the engine is running, it is of no consequence unless it throws a code about the oiling.

So you have water in the fuel. That was your check engine light at key on problem. Unrelated to your real problem, a damaged EMM.

Your only two options, if you want the engine to run again, is to send it to DFI tech and try your luck. Send it to BRP and have them send you a remanned EMM.

It is fun to play with EVDiags, however in this instance it is only an excercise. Check your engine report for an overheated EMM, somewhere in it's history. That will be the key or yours is a fluke and just **** the bed.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

multimech i was able to get some screen shots. And my engine runs fine. I recently bought this boat and came with this problem. I'd like to avoid paying a few hundreds for getting the dmm rebuilt.

 

[dickjorkey]

Re: EMM over heating on a 200 Evinrude ficht (Same Old Problem)

on the faults history where it says times; is that the amount of times that error code has occurred?