Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @2500 (video link!)! please help!! UPDATED!!!

daselbee

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

I can't answer your question without paragraphs and paragraphs of electronic technobabble.
I also would need to be able to draw circuits out, and I cannot do that here.

But, no, the diode is not detecting ground, and no, grounding one side of a diode does not "send 12v+- to the diode".

No, the signal voltages do not vary as in your example of 3.3v to 12v. Doesn't work that way.

You will have to know how a diode works, specifically, the "cathode negative with respect tothe anode" aspect of diode operation.
If the lead with the silver band (cathode) is negative with respect to the other lead (anode) the diode will conduct current.

Consider a diode with the anode (no band lead) connected to the positive terminal of a battery. The cathode is connected to the negative terminal.
So, the diode is forward biased, as the "cathode is negative with respect to the anode". Current will flow. If the battery is sufficient, and almost all are (even the AA cells), the diode will burn up. It will fail, either shorting internally, or opening up completely internally. Depends on how much current, the diode rating, and any huge number of factors as to which way it will fail. Most OPEN up.

But reverse the leads. Now the diode is reverse biased, with the cathode on the positive battery terminal, and the anode on the negative battery terminal. It will now pass no current. And it will exist there indefinitely, happily, unless certain specs are exceeded.
The major one is PRV, peak reverse voltage. If the diode is rated 1000v like the one you suggest to use, then a voltage spike of 1,500 volts will fry the diode. But a voltage spike of 900v will not do any damage.

There is much more to it, terms like floating voltage, and virtual ground, but the whole deal centers around the fact that the pack "sees" a ground when the affected sensor triggers. Whatever the floating voltage was on the tan line from the pack, now it is ground because the sensor switched. So the pack does it's thing....SLOW. Or if the "no oil sensor" switches to ground, the horn sounds.

Play around with your electrical system. Put your meter on volts 20v DC range, and measure the voltage on the tan wire from the pack. I have no idea what it will be. The pack electronics will be determining that. It could very well be 12v, floating. Then short the tan wire to ground. Horn will sound, and engine will go into SLOW. It is all in the pack, not the diode. Diode is a dumb component.

If you look at the wiring diagram, you will see that in the case of the blocking diode, the way the other sensors are wired, if one of them goes to ground, (negative with respect to), the diode will not conduct, allowing the tan wire to stay at it's floating level.

It is very hard to explain. I wish I could draw it out. Just remember "cathode negative with respect to anode" turns a diode on.

That's what you do with your meter when you reverse the leads. You swap that "negative with respect to" factor.

One other factor to consider is the voltage drop across the diode. Most all diodes have a 0.7vdc voltage drop across them when forward biased. So, if the cathode was grounded, you will measure .7 volts on the anode, in a properly designed electronic circuit.
In my example above with a diode and battery, you would always have a load in the circuit to limit the current.
That load is provided inside the pack. The pack itself limits the current on the tan line to ground when the sensor switches.

I think you are assigning functionality to the diode when you should consider the pack as the driving electronic device here.

Sorry for the technobabble.
 

bob johnson

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

that is one glaring example of why electronics trips up sooooo many of us.....just knowing electrical circuits isnt enough.,.....12 volts powers stuff..its either on or it isnt....is simple...but the truth is its way way more than that....

thats why the factory makes and offeres so many electrical test devices to troubleshoot these motors...

its complicated..!!!!!!!

thanks daselbee..

bob
 

daselbee

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

the OP has a fast strike version of the 150 hp johnson 60 degree looper motor. The OP states his model number is j150eleo. I had thought that the fast strikes were the the GL versions.....ie j150 gleo

does anyone know the different between the model numbers?

thanks

bob

Bob, the "L" in the model number indicates a 20" engine. The G and the L don't go together to indicate the GL model.

If anything, the GL model will be designated at the end of the model number with a suffix alpha character like the "O" on the end of his model number.

E200STLEDM is a 1996 200 Evinrude Vindicator, 20", tilt/trim, I don't know if the "S" or the "M" is the Vindicator designation.
 

daselbee

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Jan 20, 2009
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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

that is one glaring example of why electronics trips up sooooo many of us.....just knowing electrical circuits isnt enough.,.....12 volts powers stuff..its either on or it isnt....is simple...but the truth is its way way more than that....

thats why the factory makes and offeres so many electrical test devices to troubleshoot these motors...

its complicated..!!!!!!!

thanks daselbee..

bob

Bob, yeah that was a load of crap wasn't it? I have been at electronics for 40 years (my career), and it gets real complicated.
Manual wirters put the step by step diagnosis procedure in to guide the majority of users to the proper diagnosis without having to fully understand exactly what is happening. You know...yes or no flow charts.....follow it to the problem.

But, in dicking with these engines, I always, you know, kinda play around with them. I make faults on purpose to see what the effect is.
For instance I deliberately opened up the timer base wires to the pack to see what happens. Found out the function of the purple, green and blue wires on the 200 looper timer base that way.

The OP could easily, without damaging a thing, take a short jumper wire and jump across that blocking diode. Then he would have his SLOW problem back.

File that knowledge away, and when you see it again, BINGO! Got the fix right here....

This got way too deep....very sorry to put some of you guys to sleep.....:facepalm:
 

SparkieBoat

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

in 1995 I show these models available
J150ELEOM
J150EXEOM
J150GLEOM
J150JLEOM
J150NXEOM
J150SLEOM
J150WTLEOR
J150WTXEOR
VJ150HLEOS

the GL, SL, and HL, all have the 175 HP higher compression heads and the main jets are almost the same as the 175 HP. these motors are reported to produce %10 more HP than rated.
 

bob johnson

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Bob, the "L" in the model number indicates a 20" engine. The G and the L don't go together to indicate the GL model.

If anything, the GL model will be designated at the end of the model number with a suffix alpha character like the "O" on the end of his model number.

E200STLEDM is a 1996 200 Evinrude Vindicator, 20", tilt/trim, I don't know if the "S" or the "M" is the Vindicator designation.

well the GL model designation is unique...the S models are ocean runner- ocean pro( depending on the brand johnson or evinrude...and they has an X and and L version for 20" shafts and 25" shafts... as does the E version.. ie EL, or EX....BUT the G does not....it is ONLY offered in L shaft length.... on the 115s and the 150 and 175 motors.....

the GL version is specifically DIFFERENT than the other version in the 115 hp model as it develops its HP rating at a different RPM than the other models and its RPM range is HIGHER....this doesnt follow to the V6 models...but


sooooo what ever the GL model actually is...( i had thought it was the intruder-fast strike version) it only comes in 20" shaft

since the OP showed a picture which clearly shows a fast Strike motor....and he listed it as ELEO......I was left wondering what the GLEO motor was badged as...

reading from the book for all 60 degree looper motors in 150 and 175 hp for 1995...they list E, N, G J C H and S model designations before the letter for the shaft length. I would hazard a guess the J is for a jet foot motor....wondering what is different about all the rest

they even list a 150SLER in the 1995 60 degree looper manual....goes figure...dont know if its a johnson or an evinrude.

you have to be acrefull about what the evinrude.com and boats net parts pages say interchange from one motor to the other

I have a 90 hp and a 115 hp motor from the same year ones an ocean pro and the other is an ocean runner... the book says the heads interchange...but they dont! sure the BOLT on.....but the chamber is about .090" deeper on the 90 than the 115...

they also say the carbs interchange.....but the bores ar e way smaller on the smaller HP models......


everything I can find is saying the GL models were fast strikes and Intruders...the other letters were ocean runners and ocean pros...9 dont know whay they had different designations...

I wonder if the OP motor was painted to make it look like a fast strike


bob
 

clanton

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Well is it running or not, I want to know.
 

clanton

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Like Daselbee said, just a blocking diode. Blocks the ground from the low oil, no oil, and fuel restriction sensors to the pack. Remember all of the tans wires come together as they go to the control harness, except for 1996 and up. The 96 and up has a tan wire with marker from each sensor going farward to the tach. Carbuator engines only.
 

BigBassin78

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Aug 13, 2011
Messages
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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Well is it running or not, I want to know.

Well to clear up some confusion, it is in fact a GLEOM I appoligize for the misinformation. I was going on the model number guide because I did not have access to boat a the time of the post..

She is running now, but have another issue to deal with.. I have another post for that... Only hitting 4800 rpm @51-52mph. Im missing a 1000rpm somewhere. Compression is acceptable, prop may be the issue. I'm running a 14.5x 24p ss raker
 

daselbee

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Usually, when you loose 1000rpm, it is because you have dropped a cylinder. Check spark on all cyls.
 

bob johnson

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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

what are the rpms at idle reading???

you could have the motor running at a set rpm..maybe 2000....and carefully pull one plug wire and see if the rpms react..they should , replace the plug wire and move onto the next plug wire.....if you are missing combustion in one cylinder you will notice no rpm change.

its funny but i rebuilt some 48 special carbs and had my motor running good... then a year latter I went to sell it and it didnt run as good...it was mising..BUT both wires were firing...but if i pulled one plug wire the motor still ran rough ..if i pulled the other wire the motor died... i was running on one cylinder....BUT I had spark in both!!..obviously fuel wasnt getting through to that cylinder....


think of all the possiblilities
with your V6 it will even more of a task to trouble shoot.....best of luck

bob
 

SparkieBoat

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Messages
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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

4800 RPMs with a 24 pitch prop..your motor is doing all it can most likely. I have a 150 on the back of a SV1900 sea pro (19' bay style)
and I can only hit 5000 with a 19 3 blade stainless prop. going to a 15 pitch.
 

BigBassin78

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
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Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

Re: Johnson 150 Fast Strike rev limiting @3000 (video link!)! New boat please help!!

4800 RPMs with a 24 pitch prop..your motor is doing all it can most likely. I have a 150 on the back of a SV1900 sea pro (19' bay style)
and I can only hit 5000 with a 19 3 blade stainless prop. going to a 15 pitch.

Let me say that I agree with you. Riding in this boat haulin at 52mph and the way the motor sounds, I can't see it pushing much more either. I think if I dropped to a 21P same diameter it would do the motor some good. I think the motor would be more comfortable. Anyway, here is the link to the thread I started about this issue, forum rules.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=542645&highlight=4800RPM
 
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