1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

mbecke2

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I've already changed the pack, stator, coils, plugs, wires, timer base!! Still have issues. I have a spark gap tester set at 7/16" get perfect blue spark on all four at cranking speed. Then I start the motor and immediately I get intermittent spark on cylinder 1. I have a "glow tester" that goes between the spark plug and wire and lights up when it gets voltage and it doesn't light up at cylinder 1 as soon as the motor starts, but it does glow on the other cylinders. I even took out my voltmeter with DVA and seems like for the most part I was getting between 145 and 175 volts at cranking speed on the orange wire coming to the coil from the pack. I'm driving myself crazy!!! Has anyone seen or heard of this. Perfect blue strong spark at cranking speed, then start the motor and spark is crazy and motor sounds bad like its missing out. Compression is perfect and fuel as well. I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT THIS IGNITION ISSUE!! KILLING ME! I think it is the ppack or timer base but tired of throwing parts. Appreciate any input.
 

boobie

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Seeing you just replaced all those parts you should go over ALL the connections in the ignition system. Grounds and all.
 

SparkieBoat

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

see the links in my sig below for where to get a DVA adapter and DL a free guide.
 

j_k_bisson

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

May sound really stupid, but only trying to help...

You replace/move around the plug and wire to other positions?

Also is that spark plug hole been thread inserted? Might be a slight corrosion problem between the insert and head, or plug and head.

Did you recently paint the head? maybe paint is in the way of the plug contact. If the gap check is not intermitent, then it might be the contact point between the plug and the head. Just a stupid though...

Sometimes it the simple things that end up driving us super nuts. Sort of like kids in a sense....... I know mine drive me nuts some times!

Just a thought........
 

j_k_bisson

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Also had another thought after I posted, You check your ground to the head? I will admitt that thewhole head would have intermittent spark if this was a case, but another thing to check while you are at it.

Sorry, thoughts from a guys who is a little hung over this morning.......

Hope it helps....
 

Will Bark

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Another dumb question but could the flywheel key be sheared and out of timing?
 

lexer440

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

I was sat at dock one day and I had similar issue, my 88 rude 140 was missing spark on number 3 but it was fine when we cranked it. A marine mechanic that was working on a boat nearby suggested I put new plugs in which he duly sold me. Problem solved for me, motor ran fine.
 

boobie

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

More dumb questions. Could the center magnet on the flywheel be loose and slipping ?? Those mtrs were known for that prob.
 

j_k_bisson

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

More dumb questions. Could the center magnet on the flywheel be loose and slipping ?? Those mtrs were known for that prob.

You mean the metal hum that the trigger surrounds? Not the actual magnets that the stator uses to create the spark?

Wouldn't this condition cause all the packs to misfire?
 

boobie

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

It was just a thought 'cause I've see ignition systems do some awful weird things over the years. That ctr magnet could also be weak.
 
Joined
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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

I worked on a 89 evinrude xp 150 one time that i fought the ignition on for 2 days. Sometimes it would start and run then it wouldnt, sometimes it had good spark then go to spark on one cylinder. The center magnet that runs the trigger broke loose and was spinning but it was still on the flywheel so I didnt notice it before i replaced the trigger. live and learn i suppose.
 

Faztbullet

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Check you timer base wiring if its a CDI unit, have seen several that had wires flipped...
 

j_k_bisson

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Ok, read your PM, and I will give you my thought's for what they are worth. Not much if you listen to my kids..... lol

Now you say you have a 1988, Does this motor have the separate power packs for both sides or one big common one for both banks of plugs/coils?

If it has separte like my 1987, swap packs from side to side. If the condition moves with the packs then there is your problem.

If you have the big common, 1 power pack for both sides, then swap the leads that go to the coils around. If the problem moves, then it is your power packs.

If not then swap around the coils. if the problem moves it is your coils.

When I rebuilt mine last year, I bought all new coils off Ebay but one. Motor worked great untill half way thru the year. That one coil I did not change out would get hot and start missing every once and while. I bought a new one and problem fixed.

Also anoth thing I had to do, I have to tear apart the plug wires and cut off a 1/4"-3/8" of the wire and re set the coil insert into the wires. Corosion got in there after 20+ years and the wires where not transfering the juice enough. I also used my trust Toco bell hot sauce to clean the coil inserts before putting them back together. Just like cleaning a penny when you where younger.

If none of this works then play with moving you plugs and wires around. But this is after you check the wires like Fast bullet said to do. He is the expert here on these motors. Most likely this is the issue. Check every wire going into the plugs from the trigger back to the plug to see if it is in the right location in the plugs and to see if it is sticking out enough to make contact with the sockets in the mating plugs. Then go thru the sockets the same.

Had a buddy that has a 2004 Yamaha 200 HPDI that won't come out of fast mode. One of the wires are backwards in the haness,but can not find it. Every sensor is reading good, but the polarity is backwards somewhere. If this an issue here?????? Might be.

Also last thing, unhook the main harness after you have it running. See if the issue clears up. Remove the boat and controls from the equation. If that does not fix it. Then you are back to cleaning every ground in the electrical system. Not fun but a nessity. Start at the coils and work your way thru each component. You'll find it, I will probably take a case of beer or two to find it though. And it will noramlly be around the 20th beer in the evening that the idea of where to look will hit yah!

Have fun and hope this helps.
 
Joined
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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

You didn't mention in what sort of issue you're having with the engine - if I guessed that it's idling crappy would I be correct?

Just for giggles pull the airbox and watch the carb throats while it's idling. Look for a flash of light indicating a backfire (more easily spotted in low light conditions). Also bring up the throttle just a little bit and watch. If you see any backfiring that would be an indication of a lean sneeze, not related to ignition. I've been there and done that, I swore I had an ignition problem because my timing light would show intermittent misses at about the same time as the engine stumbled - turned out I had carb problems. Since you've already replaced the entire ignition system it sounds like it's time to consider other options, and it won't cost anything but your time to do this.
 

mbecke2

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Thanks for the response. This looper has one single powerpack. I gotta tell you I HAVE BEEN THROUGH EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT of this motor and thoroughly checked all ignition components 10000 times. I have put numerous hours into this motor and brought it to 2 professional mechanics. The thing is it has perfect spark one second, then the next it has no spark on 3. It is hit or miss like it has a mind of its own!! I have worked on this problem for almost a year and still can't solve it. Today I checked the spark with a gap tester and it was not sparking on 3, so I swapped the wire from the pack to the coil from cyl 4 and then number 3 fired perfect. SO I put the wires back to their proper coils, and then the spark on 3 returned. This motor has no rhyme or reason and is not a typical problem. Then I checked the voltage with DVA at the orange wires coming into the coils and was getting 171 on all 4. I checked the volatge of the orange wires from the stator at cranking and got 19 volts. So this motor is beyond me. Everyday it is different. But it always has an issue with cyl 1 and 3. Both 2 and 4 have great spark. And you say I will find it on my 20th beer!!!!! HAHAHA!!! I've had about 2000 beers and still cant hash this one out. I may have to take her to the junkyard!!!
 

clanton

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

This engine has Quick Start, you will only get a good test by following the OEM manual to the letter. Your test result of 19 on the 2 orange wires is low, this powers the logic in the pack for Quick Start. Your first post on pack output said 145-175, your testing bad or pack is bad. Look at the sticky on wiring diagrams, check your wires on the termial board. Your meter with the DVA should be set on 400 volt DC scale, and non auto ranging.
 

CharlieB

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Also check for any contact or rub makes between the flywheel and stator, a worn/loose upper bearing can allow contact which will negate the magnetic field, killing voltage and causing a 'no spark' for that moment/cyl.
 

SparkieBoat

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

I am almost sure the problem you describe is either your power pack or timer base. assuming that you have inspected your flywheel magnets and they are not loose. you need to check your timer base connected and not connected to your power pack. see if there is any differences. you use the white wire as your ground then test to
Purple, blue, green and pink all should be 0.6V or higher with your DVA adapter.
test connected then test disconnected and post readings of both.

next test using the same white wire as ground, connected and disconnected.
Purple/white
blue/white
green/white
pink/white
all readings should be 1.5 V or higher using DVA adapter.
make sure you are using a quality multi meter.

also do a DVA test on your stator just for kicks.
brown to brown yellow should be 150v or above.
then test orange to orange/black should be 11-22V

all test done with DVA adapter, remove your spark plugs, ground all of your plug wires and make sure you are using a good battery. all the wires are under your power pack, you will need a set of piercing probes to test wires while connected. I keep a can of liquid electrical tape to cover holes when I am done.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

The round rubber plug electrical connectors (all of them)..... The pins/sockets have a habit of getting pushed back slightly which results in a poor connection which in turn results in erratic igniiton behavior. Check those pins/sockets to make sure they're where they belong.

Also, the wires that are attached to those pins/sockets have been known to break clean away BUT still have the wire portion held in place by the friction of the rubber socket which results in a make/break connection setup due to vibration... check for that problem also.
 

mbecke2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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May 24, 2009
Messages
94
Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

I am almost sure the problem you describe is either your power pack or timer base.


THE RESULTS ARE IN!! I'm not sure you are goin to like them, and you probably will comment on my voltmeter, which is a cheap radio shack digital voltmeter with a DVA connected. I had a friend help who is mechanically inclined and can fix anything!!

--------------Connected--------- Unconnected
purple --------- 2.4 ----------- 2.6
blue ----------- 2.5 ------------ 2.6
green ------------2.4 --------------2.6
pink ------------- 2.0 ---------------2.3
purple/white------4.0 --------------4.1
blue/white------- 4.2 -------------4.5
green/white -----4.0 ------------- 4.1
pink/white ------ 4.4 ------------ 4.7

I also checked the stator brown and brown yellow and got 356 unconnected and 315 connected and the orange wires I got 19V connected. After doing these test we started testing the orange wires that come from the pack to the coils and got strange results. I started getting no voltage on cylinder 4 and checked the spark and it was gone on 4. It was getting good readings on cylinder 1 over 150V and nothing on 3. Then it came back to 3 and was sparking fine on 3 again. Go figure. So at the end of it all I says what the heck let me fire it up. Starts right up, sounds ok. Pull out my in-line spark glow bulb, perfect spark on all 4. WTF??????? The problem comes and goes, like a wierd electrical phenomenom. The spark is something else I tell ya. Its like the motor is posessed. Anyhow, I reved it up a lil bit and it sounded good at first. BUt then later on I reved it and it had a bad miss. Now when it starts, it immediately has a bad miss, then clears up after 2 seconds and idles ok. Then when I rev it up it misses real bad. I did this 5 times in a row. And thats where I stand. My friend thinks powerpack. I think Im crazy!! STUMPED!! Going to drink a beer........
 
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