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1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

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  • 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

    My friend willyclay suggested that I pop over here to the E & J forum and start a thread, so here goes: A little bit about me; my name is Dave and I go by Monterey Dreams around here. (M.D.) is the name of that very large and becoming more expensive by the day yard ornament that I own. (Please See 1959 Glasscat Catamaran project underway in the dry dock) I am not overly computer literate and as of yet I do not know how to put a linkÖ.but I will learn. I am a complete noob when it comes to boats. This has been my first restore project.
    I am having a very hard time with my motor a Johnson Super Seahorse ďBig twinĒ 40 hp 1963.
    Model Number: RDS-25D
    Serial 2338064.
    It is a long shaft (maybe an add-on kit), electric start manual shift motor.
    When I bought it from the guy, I required him to start it before I bought it. It did, in fact it fired right up and putted very nicely. I did not see of course before hand, maybe he had nitrous squirted in it or something, but I did see it turn over and run. He kicked it into gear, and it worked in both directions.
    This brings me to today. Here is a copy from my posting today on my thread in the dry dock;
    Re: 1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Underway.
    Hi guys,
    Really quickly, Like JDA (Judge) after today, I am really considering giving up the ghost myself.
    I had the day off and it was a beautiful spring day (in the middle of winter) I decided to get the motor running (since I had seen it running great a week ago). I changed the lower unit gear oil, put the motor in the 55 gal drum and tried to fire it up. It would only glug, glug but not kick on. No matter what I did. The fuel connector is leaking so I changed it with a new one that I bought yesterday for 25 bux. It still leaks even after I changed the port. So I bypassed the whole thing and connected the fuel hose directly to the fuel inlet port. (Which is clearly marked by the way). No matter what I did. It would not turn over all day. I put new spark plugs, a new starter solenoid and nothing works. I pulled the spark plugs and my brother put his finger up to the head without the spark plug in it he could feel the compression when I turned the key. We had fuel in the spark chamber. We had fuel in the carb. We had spark. We grounded the spark plugs and turn it over and watched the arc. It should have fired but it would not. I was using ratio (I not sure of the terminology 50 to 100?) I have a measuring glass that has the ratios on it so I know I had the right mixture. My friend told me to use the 50 to whatever. Now I think my new 100 dollar battery is either fried or dead. (I was discouraged and very tired by the end of the day when I decided to replace the starter solenoid. (Another 40 Bux and a run to the parts store before they closed). I forgot to disconnect the battery and grounded my wrench on the solenoid box when I removed the solenoid. I got a huge spark and now I have nothing. The key does not even make the motor glug anymore when I turn it is just dead. I donít know if it is dead battery we tried starting all day so battery could be dead. (I got it on the charger but I donít even know if it is working or not, dads charger and it does not have any lights until the thing is fully charged). When I turn the key there is nothing at all. No solenoid ticking (if the starter was burnt out?) We also did not keep the motor cranking at long intervals, we used short bursts. I (sorry to say in desperation) used a small amount of starter fluid (I figured the oil in the gas would start to lubricate if it started to run). All it did was back fire a time or two and nothing else. I took of the ignition switch to make sure all the wires were attached. (They were).
    I spent a lot more money today and again nothing to show it and for an entire day of labor. I am sick of it. I watched the SOB thing start and run at the PO home. I donít know. Maybe he had racing fuel in the damn tank.
    SO as of now I am ready to take the remainder of my premix fuel and pour it over the boat and light her up (like my friend suggested in a joke)Öface palm.
    Your friend
    Dave
    As you can see I was a little distraught by the time I wrote this thread. I have calmed down a little by now, but still I am very frustrated. This is the second old engine I have been tinkering with, the 1st being pure junk. So I decided to chuck it and buy another engine (working so I would not have the heart ache)Ö.well you see how well that is going for me.
    Any insights you can give me are greatly appreciated
    Dave
    "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

    1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
    1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785


  • #2
    Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

    Well trying to wade through that very long, but informative information, some things stick out. As I understand the situation, the starter cranked the motor, it just wouldn't run----right? You tried it so long that you ran the battery down, and the starter wouldn't crank it any more---right? Then you went to the auto parts store and bought a Ford solenoid----right? Now it is completely "dead"---right?

    OK, it is hard to know why it won't run without some orderly and meaningful trouble shooting. But for the cranking problem (completely unrelated to why it won't run), you obviously ran the battery down. All it needs is recharging. Now, you screwed up by putting that Ford solenoid in there. They look alike but are DIFFERENT inside. Putting it in your Johnson is guaranteed to instantly destroy the safety switch. Now you have two problems!!!! Put the correct solenoid back in, there probably isn't anything wrong with it. Now, look below the flywheel area for a switch that is activated by the throttle position. It has a white wire going to it, and is the safety switch. For TROUBLESHOOTING only, disconnect that wire and connect it to "ground" (any heavy metal part of the powerhead). Now see if it will crank. If it does, your battery and solenoid are perfectly ok. Replace that safety switch before using the motor---it is there for SAFETY!!

    With the starter cranking again, figure out why it won't run. It is senseless to crank away forever and run the battery down and wear the starter out. That motor will start almost immediatly if it is going to start at all. Start with the automatic choke. Defeat it by putting the manual lever on "choke on" and/or "choke off" positions.

    Lastly, the fuel connector. Loose and wiggly, right? Sounds like you bought a Yamaha connector.

    Comment



    • #3
      Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

      Describe your starting procedure in detail. Why did you change the solenoid?
      Is your dads charger a charger or float charger intended to just maintain the battery?
      Does it have an output rating?
      Did the po start it in a barrel or on muffs?
      The spark should be blue and you should here it snap.When cranked with a finger or thumb in the plug hole it should blow it out of the way.

      Comment



      • #4
        Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

        Then you went to the auto parts store and bought a Ford solenoid----right? Now it is completely "dead"---right?

        Wrong: I ran to west marine and spent 45 dollars on a sierra solenoid! i'm not that much of an arse!
        "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

        1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
        1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785

        Comment



        • #5
          Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

          ďI changed the solenoid because I was not clicking when key was turned so I thought it might have burnt out from my day of trials. I also replaced plugs. They were dirty oily, (but it is a 2 stroke) and looked ok.

          My dadís charger is a little Napa thing. It only has one light that will flash when the battery is charged. Since I live 40 miles from my boat (my hoa does not allow boats I only get to work on it on weekends and use tools at his house). Output rating on charger Iím not sure... Battery is 1000 cca. Interstate Cranking (Marine). I Left it charging, will go check today.

          PO started in BBL.

          Spark was very blue. I did not hear because I was up in pilot area my brother (who took some small engine in HS a while back) said spark was good and he did put his finger in plug hole. He also said that was good.
          Thank you guys for your interest.
          Dave
          "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

          1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
          1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785

          Comment



          • #6
            Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

            Fuel connector not loose and wiggly; actually it is very tight, it just leaks through between the fittings. The new fitting is exactly like what was on the motor originally.
            I bought that one from a boat shop on my route, the guy whom I buy from is very knowledgeable. I don’t think he would give me a Yamaha (but stranger things have happened).
            Dave
            "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

            1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
            1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785

            Comment



            • #7
              Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

              I did try automatic choke,
              Choke on,
              Choke off,
              Nothing would get it to start.
              My brother took both plug wires off maybe he crossed them? I don’t know.
              The PO had them (plug wires) marked with grease pencil. One and two, I guessed one would be the top and two the bottom. Anyways that is how the wires fit best anyways. Longer wire to top and shorter to bottom.
              Dave
              "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

              1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
              1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785

              Comment



              • #8
                Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                Originally posted by Monterey Dreams View Post
                Then you went to the auto parts store and bought a Ford solenoid----right? Now it is completely "dead"---right?

                Wrong: I ran to west marine and spent 45 dollars on a sierra solenoid! i'm not that much of an arse!
                Sierra sells Ford solenoids also (for inboards). AND Evinrude ones. So ok, maybe you did get the correct one. In that case, your job is to use a multimeter to do some voltage checks on the starting system. Diagnose the problem before buying any more expensive parts. Five minutes of tests could have saved you $45.

                My last comment. I'm not a arse either.

                Comment



                • #9
                  Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                  F_R: I was not implying that you were one either!!! I got a PM message from my friend, he asked me about my fuel tank. I took my large vented tank apart yesterday to repair and inspect before I installed it in the rebuild project. I had not got it back together yet.
                  I was using a small 1 gallon plastic fuel tank (not vented) like for mixing and putting gas in a weed whacker. I took the top off and stuck the fuel line down the throat.
                  Could that small tank caused my trouble?
                  Thank you for your assistance, I do value everything you guys tell me here on this site, and I will do the voltage checks for you and report back to you. I think I am going to get back to the boat tomorrow.
                  Thanks again guys:
                  Dave
                  P.S. I was more worried about grounding the old solenoid out when my wrench slipped and contacted the housing (very big spark). I did not know if I could have caused damage to the battery then, because the key did not work any longer.
                  "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

                  1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
                  1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785

                  Comment



                  • #10
                    Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                    ? I was using ratio (I not sure of the terminology 50 to 100?)

                    Something about the above statement confuses me. Almost seems like he mixed too much oil with the fuel to me, unless he meant 50 to 1.
                    sigpic
                    Jeff
                    '89 Harris 24 ft. Pontoon w/90 Johnson
                    '71 MG15 Crestliner w/85 Evinrude ES

                    Comment



                    • #11
                      Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                      Well, I can't see why this motor wouldn't start either. If you make sure the fuel system is completely charged and the spark plugs both spark real good, then it should run.

                      Yea, I would stay away from Ford solenoids, because the two small pegs are hot, whereas the pegs on an outboard solenoid are hot on the left and ground on the right. Hot on the right, meaning you run a hot wire to it, from the start position on your key switch and the other small peg goes to the safety switch on your outboard. Myself, I just run that ground wire to a good ground on the motor. I bought a couple outboard solenoids from a guy on ebay for $1 and paid $5 shipping, so they're cheap, if you shop right.

                      That motor should actually run at 24:1 fuel mix, but 50:1 won't hurt it.
                      sigpicVice Admiral Zephyr

                      1941 Johnson HD-20 (in restoration)
                      1947 Sea King 5hp
                      1948 Evinrude Sportsman
                      1949 Martin "40"
                      1951 Evinrude Fastwin
                      1954 Evinrude Fleetwin
                      1955 Evinrude Fleetwin
                      1955 Johnson JW-11
                      1955 Johnson CD-12 (2)
                      1955 Johnson QD-16
                      1955 Johnson RD-17
                      1957 Jhnson CD-14
                      1957 Evinrude Big Twin
                      1958 Evinrude Fisherman
                      1958 Johnson FDE-12
                      1959 Johnson RDSL-21B
                      1974 Tanaka 1hp (screamin' drink mixer )

                      Comment



                      • #12
                        Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                        It is OK to run the open end of the fuel hose into the tank for testing.
                        Did the primer bulb get good and tight when you pumped it?
                        You can also fill a small squirt bottle with the mixed gas and squirt it into the carb throat to test.
                        Please no PMs. My mailbox is full anyway......

                        Comment



                        • #13
                          Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                          Thank you everybody for your expertise:
                          F_R: I am going to try to get the readings for you tomorrow.
                          River Lizzard: 50 to 1
                          1946Zephyr: I will get photos tomorrow of my system (starboard side big post sparked when the wrench slipped). Is that ground or hot do you think? I think hot. And it was a sierra solenoid (no ford I think) from west marine (I wish I would have checked ebay!!!!)
                          I was told since motor was originally supposed to run on lead gas, I should use the 50/1 since oil is better today and no lead to adhere to.
                          Tx1961whaler: The bulb was actually very hard to pump before I even started. Then it got a little softer while pumping. I think it was hard at the end of pumping but to tell the truth I did not pay attention. I could feel the fuel move through the bulb.
                          When pumping I had a leak around the little glass bowl. The gasket was shot. I put a new gasket and I tighten the thumb screw fitting and it stopped the leak. Going to walmart tomorrow for the squirt bottle.
                          I am mainly concerned because now the key does not even attempt to turn over the motor it is just dead. I thought if the battery was low like a car it would turn slowly. Or solenoid would tick.
                          Now the key is just dead. I am hopeful it is just a dead battery but with my luck it will be much worse.
                          Thank you all again.
                          Dave
                          "Cannery Row in Monterey in California is a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream." John Steinbeck

                          1963 Big Twin Troubles: My E&J Thread. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=532156
                          1959 Glasscat Catamaran Project Uderway (My Dry Dock Thread). http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507785

                          Comment



                          • #14
                            Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                            Once the bulb is hard you shouldn't be able to squeeze it untill it uses some fuel.
                            When it gets hard it indicates the carb is full.If the motor starts the bulb will feel soft as the motor is drawing fuel through it.
                            The starter may be dead because the neutral safety switch is slightly out of adjustmemt.
                            Also if you advance the throttle too far it may disable the starter.

                            Comment



                            • #15
                              Sign up today
                              Re: 1963 40 HP Big Twin Troubles.

                              Another thing to check is the fuse in the box that the solenoid switch is in (if it has one) that could have blown when you arced at the solenoid switch. My 18 Johnny did not have a fuse holder in that box, but my brother's 35 sol. sw. box did. Just a thought

                              Comment


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