Why delete the VRO ?

[jaylo600]

I'm doing the research but it seems to me that it's more of a 'fail safe ' thing than a proven fact. I'm in the middle of a rebuilding my engine that failed due to overheating , not oil pump failure. I like the idea of not having to mix gas and would like very much to leave the VRO system in place and functional. I have an older snowmobile that I have disabled the injector pump because of it's plastic gear that grenades and it has been well documented, I'm not seeing that here. Obviously I don't want an engine failure but is the system really that bad ?? give me some feedback here guys , I value your opinions.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

As all systems it needs some attention and service. There are more engines running with the VRO than without. Most cases where they gets disconnected is due to the 'owners' does not understand the system or does not want to pay the price of keeping it working as intended. Be sure the NO-Oil alarm is working, oil-tank and filter is clean, oil-hose not leaking air and you may have it working for a long time. Remember never to run an engine with VRO out of gas as that will fill up the carbs with pure oil!!

 

[Blazinmonkey]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

``Remember never to run an engine with VRO out of gas as that will fill up the carbs with pure oil!! ''

i have had a 1985 J140 VRO since 1991. ran out of a gas plenty of times & never had that happen...

i call BS on that carbs will fill up the with pure oil...

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Jay, The newer VRO systems have more sensors to tell you if/when they fail. This makes the newer systems better than to older ones, IMHO. I am currently running the OMS system on my '98 Johnny. It is real convenient. I also use the oil resevoir tank to tell me how much gasoline I have used (Fuel Gauge is not too reliable), via how much oil it takes to refill after each fishing trip.

I carry a gal of 2 cycle oil in case the OMS system were to fail, I could premix on the spot.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

``Remember never to run an engine with VRO out of gas as that will fill up the carbs with pure oil!! ''

i have had a 1985 J140 VRO since 1991. ran out of a gas plenty of times & never had that happen...i call BS on that carbs will fill up the with pure oil...

You're very fortunate BlazinMonkey. As Chris states above, the later model VRO's have a fail safe to prevent the carburetors from loading up with oil, BUT many of the earlier year models would do just that... seen it happen many times.

Why would your engine run out of gas so many times? Just curious as running a multi carbureted engine out of gas when one is done with it is not a good idea.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Jay... The following may be of some interest to you.

(VRO Changeover Judgement Call)
(J. Reeves)

The VROs first came out in 1984 and have been upgraded quite a few times. In my opinion, back around 1988, they had perfected them but I think that they were upgraded even more since then. As long as the warning system is operating as it should, I feel quite at ease with them.

Some boaters have voiced their thoughts such as "What if that overpriced plastic horn should fail while I'm under way for some reason, and the VRO decides to fail five minutes later?" Obviously that would result in a big problem which really brings their fears into view.

The word "ease" is the key word though. If one has the slightest feeling of being ill at ease with that setup, then they should take the route they feel more at ease with. A judgement call each individual would need to make on their own.

 

[jaylo600]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Thanks Joe,

I kinda felt that it was a matter of preference. I have no problem with the maintaining part of the pump, I usually go over all my stuff fairly well. Like I said having an injection system is a hell of alot better than shaking a jerry can til your arms fall off.

I read a good artical on here this morning about the VRO myths. A very good read, I will try to post it but I'm sure everyone has seen it before.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

I had VRO on a 1988 70. It failed once: ran out of oil (daughter using it, but I take the blame) and no alarm. We rebuilt and ran it for several more years w/out a problem, then I replaced the motor for other reasons with a 1986 70 that the VRO was disconnected. I feel a lot more comfortable without it, and I use the boat alone in remote areas a lot.

I also almost lost the rebuilt motor when I found the oil hose was cut.

IOW I do not trust the system, especially the alarms, on an old motor, but I am OK with it on my 2003 Yam.

The VRO is very convenient and generally reliable for the casual recreational boater. Commercial boaters see them as too risky and they don't mind mixing, so they are the first to disconnect or buy a commercial grade motor without it.

I think Yamaha solved the biggest risk by putting a decent sized gravity fed oil reservoir inside the motor cowl, to back up its "VRO" from the tank. But you are still riding on the strength of the alarm.

I have an older Yam 50 where you pour the oil in the top of the motor, no seperate tank. It's a good idea but a PITA in design.

All a matter of preference based on confidence in your equipment, and the risk if it fails.

BTW I never heard about not running gas out and we did it some, but not often, with the 1988 70, no problem.

 

[robert graham]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Any oil injection system is just one more thing than could fail with catastrophic consequences for your motor, but for the convenience lots of folks like them. I prefer the simplicity of my premix Yamaha 90c, never seems like a chore to dump a pint of oil, some Ringfree and some Stabil in the 6 gallon jerry can. I guess it's whatever you get used to and are comfortable with. Good Luck!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Robert, It is indeed easy to mix up 6 gal of fuel, just before you need it. However, a lot of boats have 100gal and larger fuel tanks. it is quite something else to have to mix up 50 or 100 gal or more at a time. You can also end up with some real heavy gas/oil ratios, if you don't use too much fuel over a period of time.

A VRO system makes fueling real easy....and since the modern systems have proven themselves, why not enjoy them?

 

[Blazinmonkey]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

`Why would your engine run out of gas so many times? Just curious as running a multi carbureted engine out of gas when one is done with it is not a good idea.'

Young & dumb... I got the boat right out of high school. My friends & I would go out skiing Loose track of time & gas (never oil). Stuff happens in the coarse of twenty years... I will take your word on the subject & consider my self lucky. Better to be lucky than good... This board is an education... My apologies to Haffiman also...

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

"Remember never to run an engine with VRO out of gas as that will fill up the carbs with pure oil!! "

Nonsense. I had an '85 J 140 HP that was always run dry, unless it was going to run again in a week or less. It had VRO2, replaced in 1986 under warranty and never a single problem with the VRO and very few other problems. There may have been some cases of carbs filling with oil (I know of one I fixed), but it clearly wasn't a universal issue at all.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

"Remember never to run an engine with VRO out of gas as that will fill up the carbs with pure oil!! "

Nonsense. I had an '85 J 140 HP that was always run dry, unless it was going to run again in a week or less. It had VRO2, replaced in 1986 under warranty and never a single problem with the VRO and very few other problems. There may have been some cases of carbs filling with oil (I know of one I fixed), but it clearly wasn't a universal issue at all.

Another example of one that does not understand the function and system of the VRO. The VRO consists of 2 pumps, one for oil and one for fuel. What controls the pump is the fuel back-pressure, and when that goes away, like when running out of fuel, the pumps starts uncontrolled pumping. No fuel, but the oil part delivers oil at every stroke into the fuel pump section. Depending on how long it takes for the engine to stop and how many strokes the pump will make, decides the amount of pure oil pumped into the system. The more carbs on the engine, the less problem, but the bottom line: the VRO will pump pure oil and no fuel!!
My experience is not from one or two engines, but from a couple of decades as dealer!! It is as previously stated, not the VRO itself that creates the most problems, but people not knowing what they are dealing with as the above comment shows.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

I once bought a late 1985(86 technology) 50 horse tilt and trim johnson for $40.It was completely taken apart in a card board box and it came with the manual. In the manual it said that the "V" of VRO stood for "Variable" and it claimed that these engines could run on a mix between 50 to a 100 on 1. Both the cylinders were badly scorched because of overheating....
To make a long story short, I redid the cylinders to an oversize and replaced the VRO with a traditional fuel pump and it has worked like a dream ever since,but it was because of faulty engineering and mistaken expectations that this and many other of these early VRO outfitted engines were fried.
I am a firm believer in "KISS" (keep it simple stupid) and at least in my case self mixing is a lot more fool proof that VROs

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

My experience is not one or two engines either. Our family owned a J/E dealership for over forty years. My post referred to recent personal experience, but it is certainly not limited to that. The motor I referred to was my personal motor, which I owned for more than twenty years with never a moments issue with the VRO. The issue you refer to was not universal by any means or even common in my experience, but it did occur occasionally and the symptoms are obvious. Tons of smoke, if you can even get a start. BTW, it occurs w/o running dry of fuel too, where the oil side continues to allow oil into the carbs while NOT running at all. Seen that a few times also.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Of course much of what is entered on these boards are opinions which are not unlike a portion of the human anatomy, everyone has one.... and it usually stinks! Nevertheless, I do respect those opinions when presented in an upright manner and take no offense.

Then again, by the same token, much of what is entered on these boards by various members are not opinions but rather knowledge gained not only thru manuals and schooling but thru many years of experience... some with thirty or fourty years of experience which should not be taken lightly. But if this experience should be ignored and questioned heavily, I for one still do not take offense.

However, when a reply is directed at various members, members of which I consider myself to be grouped with starts out with a direct insult of "Nonsense" which in effect is slamming a few of us, I take a damn dim view of it and usually fire back with a stream of profanity that has a tendency to destroy my keyboard.

However, since I have started going back to church, I will refrain from going the foul mouth route and condemning anyone to Hell and simply request that when members have a difference of opinion.... please engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear, stating your opinion without the insults.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

..... BTW, it occurs w/o running dry of fuel too, where the oil side continues to allow oil into the carbs while NOT running at all. Seen that a few times also.

Which is anothe issue of 'service'. The oil tank vent is blocked and building pressure forcing oil past the O-ring seal on the oil piston, but not a VRO pump issue unless the O-ring is broken, which I have never seen. You even have those claiming the VRO is 'over-oiling' which again is a misunderstanding of the system. The pump can NOT over-oil, but it may pump too little fuel relative to the amount of oil for each pump-stroke. That is again an early warning that your fuel pump is starting to fail and needs service/repair or you have an air leakage/blocking in the fuel system. This is an 'alarm' function that normal fuel-pumps do not have, they just gives less fuel, and sooner or later your engine starts running lean and burns down!

 

[destroyer_85_golf]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

i have a 1998 40 hp with the vro taken off, I use the boat for duck hunting and it always made me nervous being out when the weathere is sub zero. I was nervous that the oil would be to viscous and not mix right so i took it off but i agree with chris1956 if i had to try to mix 50 to 100 gallons i might still have it hooked up.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

Of course much of what is entered on these boards are opinions which are not unlike a portion of the human anatomy, everyone has one.... and it usually stinks! Nevertheless, I do respect those opinions when presented in an upright manner and take no offense.

Then again, by the same token, much of what is entered on these boards by various members are not opinions but rather knowledge gained not only thru manuals and schooling but thru many years of experience... some with thirty or fourty years of experience which should not be taken lightly. But if this experience should be ignored and questioned heavily, I for one still do not take offense.

However, when a reply is directed at various members, members of which I consider myself to be grouped with starts out with a direct insult of "Nonsense" which in effect is slamming a few of us, I take a damn dim view of it and usually fire back with a stream of profanity that has a tendency to destroy my keyboard.

However, since I have started going back to church, I will refrain from going the foul mouth route and condemning anyone to Hell and simply request that when members have a difference of opinion.... please engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear, stating your opinion without the insults.

Jeez,Joe,
I think there is a huge difference with what you would like to say and what you actually type. I honestly never have read even one questionable word in any of your comments. In fact your above mentioned comment is exceptional in that it goes beyond just plain advise. However, I am with you all the way.
Rolmops.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Why delete the VRO ?

I think there is a huge difference with what you would like to say and what you actually type....

Well, I think he said it pretty well.