Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

[zing]

I was flushing in the driveway after a trip and turned off the battery switch rather than the ignition, the motor ran for about 5 seconds disconnected from the battery before I killed the ignition.

The tach was shot after this so I got a new regulator (CDI - love their stuff). Put that in, the tach was still gone, replaced the tach, which now reads 1000rpm until the key is turned then drops to zero (normal) but never moves beyond zero.

My main concern is the voltage while underway, it's reading 16.5V. That's with the new regulator. I called CDI and they said the battery was the issue, never run a maintenance free or deep cycle battery on the regulator. I've got one group 27 deep cycle and one group 24 starting battery on a A-B-both switch. Both batteries are wallyworld Maxx batteries. The tech suggested I get a new marine starting battery and only run that on the motors charging system, keeping the deep cycle for accessories and charging that on shore, not through the regulator.

I also asked if running the rig as is on 16+V would hurt anything, answered not really. Might this fry the stator? Could the battery really be the problem?
I've got a 10amp stator on this motor the regulator is rated for 35amps.

Seems to me this new regulator is fried too or was defective to begin with as the tach doesn't work. Both batteries read 12.6 and 12.8V after sitting a couple days.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

The batteries are reading normal voltage. It is usual for a voltage regulator to provide voltage for charging up to around 13.5 volts on a dash gauge. The 16.5 voltage is more typical with an unregulated system-using a rectifier only. I am suprised yours will read up to 16.5 volts with a combination rectifier/regulator. That's unusual. The tech gave you some good info regarding the battery setup.The start batteries are meant to put out a lot of voltage for a few seconds (starting) then be charged back up quickly and perhaps often. The deep cycles batteries will run the engine, but don't like to be constantly charged as is typical with starting battery. You may reduce the life of a deep cycle battery somewhat over time unless is is one of the premium type deep cycle batteries that is made to go both ways. (charging and running a accessories or a trolling motor.)

 

[cfauvel]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

yeah I recently replaced a regulator and was taken aback by the VOID WARRANTY statement if you use a maintenance free, AGM, or dry cell battery.

The optima batteries are awesome and can be recharged quite a few times more than regular battery and hold the charge for an insane amount of time, BUT CDI says NO...

And not charge a deep cycle battery? what happens if it dies on you on the water.

They make it sound like you are not suppose to recharge your batteries withthe recharging system of the motor, but always charge your batteries on shore...what???

even new advertisements boast how their new xx amp charging system will charge n number of batteries and electronic devices.

Maybe a deep cycle battery should be recharged on shore since it is supposed to be recharged slowly I guess...

any battery experts out there?

 

[zing]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

I hear ya on the don't charge your batts with our regulator. I take a trip to camp on an island for 3-4 days every year and it's gotta charge during that time. I'm thinking of splitting off the deep cycle as recommended but want to replace the starting battery with a decent unit. What's a good quality CDI approved group 24 battery?

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

You are asking a lot of that 10 amp alternator on that engine. It would have to run for many, many miles at high rpm's for that little 10 amp alternator to run the power trim, dash gauges, radio, fish finders, etc., in addition to replacing the charge in a starting battery-then charge second deep cycle battery. That little stator is made to run the ignition and keep the starting battery charged. Some of the larger 150/175 engines have 35 amp alternators which have the capacity to recharge batteries.

 

[zing]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

I understand 10amps isn't much and often charge the deep cycle at home but didn't realize charging it on the water would blow the regulator. After installing either a defective replacement or blowing another reg/rec on the first trip I think something else is wrong. Could turning off the battery while running the engine have damaged the battery? So at this point I'd like to replace the starting battery with a quality unit, any suggestions?

 

[etracer68]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

I have a 1987 90HP Johnny with T&T, it too has a 10 amp stator, and 35 amp Rec/Reg. Seems the motors without T&T use a 10 amp stator and 10 amp Rec/Reg. Why 35 amp Rec/Reg with T&T and not on motors without T&T? I dont mean to hijack zing's thread, but Im confused as to the diff amp Rec/Reg.

 

[cfauvel]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

I understand 10amps isn't much and often charge the deep cycle at home but didn't realize charging it on the water would blow the regulator. After installing either a defective replacement or blowing another reg/rec on the first trip I think something else is wrong. Could turning off the battery while running the engine have damaged the battery? So at this point I'd like to replace the starting battery with a quality unit, any suggestions?

NEVER turn off the battery switch while engine is running. And most people say never switch batteries while engine is running.

 

[zing]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

Cfauvel, Your statement is certainly worth repeating.

My switch is a make before break, verified with a meter, never had a problem with it in that regard. I actually know better than to switch the battery off while the motor is running, that's the worst part of all this.

I'll do some searching for quality battery suggestions or start a new thread on that topic.

Maybe someone will chime in on the reason for the 35amp reg/rec, seems odd to me.

 

[cfauvel]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

Zing you had this one of your posts, 'Could turning off the battery while running the engine have damaged the battery? ' So hence the comment, even if it is a make then break switch , if your are turning off the switch completely that's bad. battery wouldn't be affected, regulator would... batteries are cheaper.

Would love to see a new thread regarding a CDI approved battery....I'm sticking with my Optima marine starting and deep cycle wet cell battery from Sam's club. On my next outing I'll see how long that deep cycle lasts with all my electronics and bait well going.

Even thought about an isolator to charge both batteries as they need ti.

 

[zing]

Re: Regulator Rectifier 16.5V on 115HP 1996 V4

Thanks for the clarification on the battery. I split the electronics off the main and put them on the deep cycle side of the a-b-both switch. This way I can keep the starting battery on the charging circuit but still put the accessories on the starting battery and start from the deep cylcle in an emergency. Now I've just got to get CDI to clarify the battery brand. The charging doc on their site shows it should be lead acid vented and at least 850CCA of the type starting or dual purpose.

 

[cfauvel]

resurrecting this from the dead...

didn't realize I've had my AGM starting battery for 6 years. Ditto for the REG....seems my reg MIGHT be acting up or the battery is acting up....Sometimes the reg doesn't give me juice out of the blue, then spike up to 16v+.. over the course of 6 years the non-maintenance-free flooded battery wouldn't stay charged so a few years ago bought an dual purpose AGM...

these AGMs are the bomb.

My new REG (not installed yet) of course had the DO NOT USE AGM batteries or WARRANTY VOIDED..

so started looking at non-maintenance-free batteries again...before putting my new reg in.

anyone come up with the BEST flooded batteries.

 

[Fed]

I'd question CDI before spending a penny.
OMC recommend the use of maintenance free batteries.
AGM are still lead acid batteries but they use glass mat between the plates for separation, I did read somewhere they run on a slightly higher Voltage.
Your 16 Volts is a worry, I know my stock OMC regulator limits the Voltage to just under 15 Volts.
Is your Voltmeter accurate?
Zero Volts could be a fault anywhere in the system but 16 Volts points to a faulty regulator, I'd like to think pull starting and running without a battery the regulator would still clip it to 15 Volts or less. I can't imagine OMC relying on combined battery load & regulator to limit the Voltage.

 

[cfauvel]

I'd question CDI before spending a penny.
OMC recommend the use of maintenance free batteries.
AGM are still lead acid batteries but they use glass mat between the plates for separation, I did read somewhere they run on a slightly higher Voltage.
Your 16 Volts is a worry, I know my stock OMC regulator limits the Voltage to just under 15 Volts.
Is your Voltmeter accurate?
Zero Volts could be a fault anywhere in the system but 16 Volts points to a faulty regulator, I'd like to think pull starting and running without a battery the regulator would still clip it to 15 Volts or less. I can't imagine OMC relying on combined battery load & regulator to limit the Voltage.

Already bought the new reg...just haven't installed it yet.

the current regulator appears to be 6 years old...

is the volt meter gauge accurate? well not sure, really...if anything it reads on the low side....fully charged battery reads around 12v at the gauge and 13+ at the multimeter...so I would assume 16+ at the gauge might be closer to 17+....eeeks

Might be time to get a new volt meter gauge to be sure.....it is 31 years old....

I need to run the boat and have my meter handy to test at the battery when I see 16+....CDi does state that (had to hunt and peck to find it) the AGM would pull higher V from the regulator....I just don't get how CDI can't put something in the guts to cap it at 15V...or maybe they do , when new, but using AGM, it does something and breaks diodes in the reg to allow > 15v

Could be a loose cable somewhere too I guess...


read somewhere too that if you run the engine without the battery it would mess up the reg as the volts have no where to go...

 

[cfauvel]

Did some testing
1 - at the battery I have 12.9v
2 - at the starter solenoid I have 12.9
3 - undoing the big red plug by the motor I have 12.9
4 - at volt gauge I have 11.7, the gauge is using the purple ignition wire .
5 - tested purple wire all the way to the horn and there too it is 11.7
6 - tested a power distribution strip and was around 12.86

so somewhere between the big red plug at the motor to the horn I'm losing 1.2 v
and the gauge is accurate as it displays slightly less that 12V mark....

Should I change the gauge's sender wire to be from the distribution strip instead...as the distribution strip is getting power directly from the battery ?

 

[Fed]

11.7 Volts on the Purple is low, it should read very close to battery Voltage with only instrument loads on it.
The Purple wire is fed from the solenoid positive (red) via the fuse where it changes to red/purple, via the red plug, via the key switch where it changes to straight purple.
It sounds like in addition to the 16 Volt problem you may also have a dodgy connection on the purple or purple/red or fuse or red plug or key switch.
I think I'd compare the meter against a known good one or buy a new one, gotta start with a base line.

Should I change the gauge's sender wire to be from the distribution strip instead...as the distribution strip is getting power directly from the battery ?

No because then the gauges would be ON all the time.

 

[cfauvel]

right....duh

 

[cfauvel]

11.7 Volts on the Purple is low, it should read very close to battery Voltage with only instrument loads on it.
The Purple wire is fed from the solenoid positive (red) via the fuse where it changes to red/purple, via the red plug, via the key switch where it changes to straight purple.
It sounds like in addition to the 16 Volt problem you may also have a dodgy connection on the purple or purple/red or fuse or red plug or key switch.
I think I'd compare the meter against a known good one or buy a new one, gotta start with a base line.

I am pretty confident the gauge is reading right as it lines up with my multimeter...BUT why is there 1.2 v drop from motor to horn....I HATE removing the key switch...a real PITA removing the gimble mount to get to it.. But I want to see if there is 11.7 behind the key switch....I am pretty sure there is...

more likely like you said...something at the motor end where red turns into purple....gotta find that.

 

[Fed]

Follow the small red wire on the positive side of the solenoid ---> fuse ---> red plug...

I have to say being a constant 1.2 Volt drop it does sound like straight out voltage drop along the red/purple wire BUT with only the gauges on it seems very large.
You could unplug your accessory harness and measure it there at the controller, that should take all the load off it.

Voltage drop is proportional to current, halve the current you halve the voltage drop.

 

[cfauvel]

Follow the small red wire on the positive side of the solenoid ---> fuse ---> red plug...

I have to say being a constant 1.2 Volt drop it does sound like straight out voltage drop along the red/purple wire BUT with only the gauges on it seems very large.
You could unplug your accessory harness and measure it there at the controller, that should take all the load off it.

Voltage drop is proportional to current, halve the current you halve the voltage drop.

Will do

I have the following gauges
Tach (with light that works)
Volt (light doesn't work_
Hour (which doesn't work - couldn't that be the draw, light doesn't work)
Fuel Flow (navman f2100, back lit)
two fuel gauge (both lights work)

Voltage drop is proportional to current, halve the current you halve the voltage drop

you lost me there, sorry.