1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

[Weston666]

Hey guys, new member here. I got a question for ya.
I just bought a 1974 starcraft 18' sus that came with a 1972 johnson hydro-electric shift.
The problem is when i start the engine it starts up in forward gear and will not go into any other gears. I just got the boat back today, i had the boat shop completely rebuild the lower on it as i thought maybe the lower was screwed up somehow, but when i got it back it still had the same problem.
I have also tried using jumpers to bypass the switch in the remote control and all seems good with the shift solenoids and all. i am very stumped on this dang thing, any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

You have the engine checked over and the lower unit completely rebuilt? And I assume you received a hefty bill and paid it? And the problem remains? Take the boat back..... you've already paid for the repairs.

(Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
(J. Reeves)

The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.

In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)

To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.

This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).
With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire.

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

Ok well it turns out that all they ended up doing was putting new solenoids in and refilled it with some type of electric shifting lubricant. he did not rebuild the lower, he just now tells me this. is it possible that the shift diode could be bad?

 

[Daviet]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

Check the system according to Joe Reeves post and you will find your ansewers.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

At the powerhead area, find the connection to the two wires that leads to the lower unit and disconnect both of them.

The engine must be running to do the following test.

Run a small jumper wire from the positive battery terminal on the starter solenoid (or positive battery terminal) to the green wire. Lower unit should shift to neutral.

Now connect the jumper wire to both of the lower unit wires. Lower unit should shift to reverse.

If the lower unit shifts okay, the lower unit is okay and the problem is elsewhere. If it does not shift properly, the lower unit is still faulty.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

ok tested the lower out and these are the results.
forward gear. no voltage on either the green or blue wire.
neutral gear. 12 vdc going to green wire. no voltage on blue.
reverse gear. 12 vdc on green wire and blue wire.

I jumpered from the starter + to the knife switches, (i couldnt crank over the engine because i am the only one here) it sounds like the solenoids are engaging in the lower end but thats all i can hear

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

Here is the procedure for testing hydro-electric shift solenoids, per the 1972 Johnson 65hp, factory service manual.


a. Neutral solenoid ? connect low reading DC ammeter between between green leads at (1)
b. Shift in neutral position ? key switch on.
c. Ammeter should read 1.5 ? 2.0 amps for ten minutes.
d. If reading too high or low ? solenoid should be replaced.
e. Repeat test at (2) between blue leads. Use same test values and procedures.
f. Ohmmeter Test (key off) ? connect meter between green lead and ground and ten blue lead and ground. Low Ohms scale should show 5 ? 6 ohms.

Note: The "1" is parenthesis indicates the blade connectors at the port side of the motor, at the lower cowl & under the exhaust cover/plates.



BTW, if your mechanic told you that he replaced the solenoids in the gearcase, ask him shere he got them - especially in regard to the lower solenoid, which is an NLA item.



???

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

Well it looks like everything tested out good on the solenoids.....I actually purchased the solenoids and shift rod new from a company out of canada.....is it possible that my mechanic put in the incorrect fluid?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

The engine must be running in order for it to shift.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

The correct fluid is "Type C" gear oil. It is now sold under the name Premium Blend" gear oil, by BRP. You can buy Type C oil by Sierra, right here at iboats. Its about a dollar a quart more at iboats than some other sources, but there is a huge benefit in buying from iboats, because most of those other sources, require you to buy a case of 1 quart bottles at a time. You can also use Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF.

The inportance of the coorect fluid is that it acts as a hydraulic fluid, as well as a lubricant. The HI-VIS gear oils commonly used in other outboard gearcases, are too heavy.

If you solenoids are testing OK at the knife blades, both they and the wiring harness in the midsection of the motor are probably fine. That leaves the wiring before that point in question, as well as the shift switch in the remote control.


Here are a couple of tests that you can do.


Testing Shift Selector Switch (at engine)

a. Connect meter or 12 volt test light between green lead (1) and common engine ground.

b. Key switch on. Shift lever in neutral.

c. Circuit shows closed or light illuminated.

d. Repeat test at blue lead (2). Use reverse position.

e. If circuits show open or light not illuminated at (1) or (2), move meter or test light to purple/green lead at terminal block.

f. If closed or illuminated, shift toggle (switch) is bad.

g. If open or not illuminated at purple/green terminal, check ignition switch, fuse and battery.

h. Remove white lead from safety switch (4) and connect meter or test light to white lead (key switch in start position). Operate shift lever to neutral, circuit should close or light should illuminate.

i. If open or not illuminated, move (5) to starter solenoid. If closed or illuminated, starter solenoid is bad.

j. If open or not illuminated, move to shift switch (6) white lead. If closed or illuminated, shift switch is bad.

k. If open or not illuminated, check key switch, fuse and battery.


Testing Switch (inside remote)

a. Connect a multimeter or light between switch green and purple with green stripe leads. If a closed circuit is indicated, push toggle to the left. If a closed circuit is shown, push toggle to the right. If an open circuit is shown, go to step b.

b. Connect meter or light between switch blue and purple with green stripe leads. If am open circuit Is shown, push toggle switch to left. If a closed circuit is shown, switch is OK. If switch is faulty, replace it.

c. Connect a continuity meter or light between the two white wires (for models with neutral cutout function in switch) from toggle switch. Circuit should be closed in neutral and open in forward and reverse.



???

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

This "white lead" you talk about in the remote control, if its not connected to anything does it matter? Because on mine the white wire is just laying there taped off

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

The white lead is the neutral safety circuit. It is inline of the starter circuit, which is white in just about any of the old OMC motors. The circuit is closed when in the neutral shift position and open in either forward or reverse. In short, it prevents the motor from being started while in gear.

If the white wires on the toggle switch are not attached to anything, the white wire coming off of the key switch must be mated to the white wire coming from the cable that runs back to the motor. Otherwise, there is nothing to send voltage to the starter solenoid.

As long as the starter safety circuit in the toggle switch works, I would use it. If not, bypass it and be on the hunt for an NOS toggle switch (very hard to find) or a good, used switch - when one part of the switch goes, the other may soon follow.



???

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

ok guys, i have narrowed it down to the solenoid rod adjustment. everything in the entire system works except the solenoid rod is out of adjustment. Any ideas on how it is suppost to be set up?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

The solenoid plungers must be flush to no lower than 1/64" from the top of the solenoid. This measurement is taken with the solenoids installed in the lower unit, bottom one first of course. The measurement is critical.

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

it turns out that the lower that someone installed on my engine must have longer shift solenoids than the ones i have????? i tried to extend the shift solenoids out as far as possible but the solenoid with the blue wire still did not have enough reach to bottom out in the bottom of the shift mechanism, if i had an extra 3/4" more shift rod it would work perfectly....im starting to think that the lower i have on my engine is an 85hp or more

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

ok well i looked through several diagrams and parts numbers for the shift rod housing and the shift rod itself. turns out all the serial numbers on them are exactly the same......Is it possible that the housing withs the balls/levers in the lower are shot/broken????

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

The shift solenoid assembly that you installed....... Is it identical in appearance to the one you removed?

The 1968/69 solenoid assembly had a flexible type botton portion that engaged the oil pump..... the 1970/72 solenoid had a solid straight tubed type bottom portion that the oil pump.

 

[Weston666]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

the solenoids and shift rod that i removed from the gearcase had been customized by some past owner for some unknown reason....is it possible that the shift balls and levers could be broken??

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

Possible? Perhaps..... but I have never encountered a broken one. Nor have I ever seen a customized shift solenoid assembly.

 

[rgo3wsp]

Re: 1972 johnson 65 hydro-electric shift

Hi everyone,

I'm new on here. I'm looking for a 4 wire shift switch for my 1972 65hp Johnson outboard. Does anyone have on for sale or know where I might find one?

Thanks,
Bert