Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

jdietz72

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Aug 31, 2009
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6
Hi folks. I confess i'm not the most outboard savy guy in the water but im fairly mechanically inclined. I have an issue that I'd love some input on. I've run it by a buddy who in my opinion is an outboard genius and he's a bit stumped.

Let me first state that i've had this issue through 10 or more tanks of fuel this summer, i run sea foam thru with every fill up as well so water contaminated fuel should not be the cause.

When i trailer it to the lake after sitting a month in storage and drop the boat, the motor cranks at first turn of the key (of course after priming/choking and all that via the 3 way ignitions switch). The thing runs just fine and dandy from then on except for the occasional sneeze and puff of smoke at idle or very low rpms.

When we stop for a few minutes to swim or hit a marina it seems we have to go through about 15 turns of the key with it turning over (that number varies) before it will fire. It then will run just fine.

This has become an expected routine and process. I have to try to crank it in short bursts with it turning over like 10 times. Then it'll start to have life, you start to get a jolt like its firing at the end of the cranking and then in one of those cranks it'll fire and burn off the flooding.

If we pull into a doc or an island at days end and it sits overnight it will fire right up the next morning at first attempt.

If we stop for 1 minute to test it it'll fire back up 1st try.

Basically it happens anytime we stop for more than a few minutes. It is the same result whether i prime and choke, prime, choke, or dont prime nor choke.

I'm thankful that it starts and can accept the routine i have to go through. BUt i have a feeling that i may be waring out the battery and starter having to go through that so ofter.

Any input is greatly appreciated.
 

wilde1j

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Let me first state that i've had this issue through 10 or more tanks of fuel this summer, i run sea foam thru with every fill up as well so water contaminated fuel should not be the cause.

First, Sea Foam does zero for water, so water should not be totally dismissed as a possible cause. I would not rule out water in the fuel pump/vapor separator. Do you have an external water separator/fuel filter, 10 micron? If not, you need one.

Has the ECU been interrogated? You may find fuel injector or spark plug issues. BTW, whenever spark plugs were last changed, I assume they were properly indexed ... right?

I don't have direct Ficht experience, but do own two E-Tecs and there is no choking or priming, since there is no choke or primer. I suspect the Ficht's are the same. You need to follow the owner's manual procedure for starting. If you don't have one, you can download it for under $25 from BRP Evinrude website.

Ficht's and E=Tec's should always start instantly when correctly set up.
 

jdietz72

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Thanks. Along with Seafoam i have put in other conditioners which claim to be useful against condensation in the tank. And honestly the thing rarely sits long enough for that to be a significant problem. But thats based on my knowledge, which i realize is quite limited.

As far as the external water seperator/fuel filter. By external do you mean not inside the engine compartment? Inside the cowling or the engine compartment yes there is a water seperator/fuel filter assembly mounted on the motor. I've recently replaced the filter and that had 0 effect.

Last year the computer was read (yes i was having the same problem then) and revealed nothing wrong.

Ok when i say choke and prime, i am referring to turning the key half way to where you hear the injectors priming. Pushing the key in the same time supposedly chokes it. Basically i'm following the manuals cold starting instructions. Applying cold or warm starting instructions after a short stop and neither procedure produces differing results.

So another buddy had an idea that i may have a contaminated fuel tank (dirt or soot) and that trailering wouldnt agitate it like running it on the water. He seems to believe that it starts fine after long sits because the soot or sediment has settled in the bottom. And that running it on the lake may provide enough bump to agitate it off the bottom, thus contaminating the fuel for next start.

Anyone think thats a decent theory to pursue?
 

wilde1j

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

The only way to keep water out of the motor is both an external filter (i.e. Racor 320-RAC-01) and a one under the hood. There is NO additive (Startron, etc) which will deal with water effectively.

Are you sure about the starting procedure? The E-Tec's require only a turn of the key. Nothing more, since pushing the key in has no effect, the same with the fast idle lever, no effect there either or an undesirable effect. At the instant you turn the key to the start position, the injectors start fuel into the cylinders right at the plugs. This is true with all DI motors.

Very easy to check out the crap in the tank idea. Just connect a portable tank to the fuel system and observe what happens.
 

jdietz72

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Yes on the starting procedure. The cold starting procedure as listed in the manual is turn key 1 click. Hold 20 seconds then turn key again to start. And yes i hear the injectors kicking in and priming.

As far as pushing the key. Yeah i dont know that it does anything. i've just heard that with a 3 way ignition switch the push in is the choke.

And i can tell you that turning once, pushing and counting to 20 during a cold start it fires every time so why change it...:)

I just cant figure out the cold start. i can tell you that a single turn of the key until the injectors stop priming doesnt do the trick. Nor does going straight to start without priming. The only way it starts after a 30 minute break is by going through the process i ran through.

I had planned to try the portable tank thing. But figured that couldnt be it as trailering would definitely agitate the crap off the bottom. But if others thing i'm off there, i'll give that a shot.
 

Greenporter

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Jul 13, 2009
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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Just wondering if you ever resolved this problem. I am having the IDENTICAL starting issues after it sits for about 30+ minutes. Only difference is that I do no have the Etech - just a 2006 Johnson.

Any input would be helpful.

Thanks
 

Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
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16,978
Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

What grade fuel are you using? What plugs?
 

Greenporter

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Man that was a quick response.

Fuel grade 87.
Plugs QL78YC (factory recommended)

The problem just came out of the blue.
 

wilde1j

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

90, 115 Ficht 2000 -2005 XC12PEPB .030" is current plug recommendation for Ficht 90.

Note that plugs MUST BE INDEXED or accelerated wear and crappy running will result.

You are using the plug recommended for a conventional motor, not a DI Ficht!

I would start with the correct plugs and proceed from there.
 

Greenporter

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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Sorry I wasn't more specific. I am running a conventional motor. Not an ETEC or FICHT.

2006 J90PLSDM (90hp)
 

tim1198

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Jul 19, 2009
Messages
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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Hi folks. I confess i'm not the most outboard savy guy in the water but im fairly mechanically inclined. I have an issue that I'd love some input on. I've run it by a buddy who in my opinion is an outboard genius and he's a bit stumped.

Let me first state that i've had this issue through 10 or more tanks of fuel this summer, i run sea foam thru with every fill up as well so water contaminated fuel should not be the cause.

When i trailer it to the lake after sitting a month in storage and drop the boat, the motor cranks at first turn of the key (of course after priming/choking and all that via the 3 way ignitions switch). The thing runs just fine and dandy from then on except for the occasional sneeze and puff of smoke at idle or very low rpms.

When we stop for a few minutes to swim or hit a marina it seems we have to go through about 15 turns of the key with it turning over (that number varies) before it will fire. It then will run just fine.

This has become an expected routine and process. I have to try to crank it in short bursts with it turning over like 10 times. Then it'll start to have life, you start to get a jolt like its firing at the end of the cranking and then in one of those cranks it'll fire and burn off the flooding.

If we pull into a doc or an island at days end and it sits overnight it will fire right up the next morning at first attempt.

If we stop for 1 minute to test it it'll fire back up 1st try.

Basically it happens anytime we stop for more than a few minutes. It is the same result whether i prime and choke, prime, choke, or dont prime nor choke.

I'm thankful that it starts and can accept the routine i have to go through. BUt i have a feeling that i may be waring out the battery and starter having to go through that so ofter.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

On the FICHT, when you turn the key on, the vapor separator pump turns on for 10 seconds to prime the FI's.

From my FICHT service manual... 'When you push the key in, the primer valve forces fuel into the cylinder (creating a richer fuel mixture)'.... If this malfunctions, or you use it when the engine is warm, it makes it difficult to start since you're flooding the engine.' Maybe the primer valve is stuck open. You can test for this condition; but it's rather convoluted and I can't cut and paste in here (tooo long).

Good luck,
Tim
 

boobie

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Nov 5, 2009
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20,826
Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Where did you get your Ficht service manual ? The primer system was only used on carb mtrs where you pushed the key in to prime when cranking. There is no such thing on any Ficht or E-tec. And yes Greenporter you do have a primer system on your mtr. The only time it works is when the mtr is cranking and you push in the key. Push in the key sometime when the mtr is running and see if the mtr wants to slow down or die. That way you know the primer is working.
 

jdietz72

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Messages
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Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

Hi folks. Been a while since I updated this thread. Hopefully it will help someone having identical problems.
Since my original posting here I have:
-Changed the plugs (yes with the factory recommended, had to special order and ouch on price)(And yes I gapped and indexed them)
-Replaced the fuel filter/water seperater
-Pulled the fuel tank for full cleaning and replaced
-Pulled and replaced all fuel and oil hoses
-New Prop (Not that its related it was just time)
-Serviced the lower unit
-Replaced the ignition switch

And nope. I took it to the lake a couple weeks ago and after sitting for 6 months it fired and ran just awesome. I was impressed that it started so quickly.

An hour later we pulled off and beached in a cove to swim a bit. Whadya know, 30 minutes later it wouldnt start correctly. The good news is it did fire after applying the same routine mentioned before (turning and cranking in short bursts 10-15 times).

During our outing we stopped about 6 times and every single time it was the same thing.

I have finally thrown the towel in and taken it to the local mechanic.

Without looking into it he guessed it was a bad injector or set of injectors. He explained in this way:

"When you run and then stop a while, if the injectors do not close properly they can leak their remaining fuel into the cylindars thus causing a flooding situation. Your short bursts to start eventually burns off the excess and the motor fires. He said the reason cold starts are good is that the same effect happens but it allows more time for the excess to drain or evaporate from the cylindars".

He came to this hypothesis after I described 2 other slight issues. They are:
-After shutting the motor off and swimming or grabbing a bite I do see some leakage in the water of oil/fuel. Nothing major but there is some drainage from somewhere. Also see the leakage on the outside of the motor after pulling up on the trailer.
-When running at idle or trolling speed I get some sneezing and coughing. Very slight but its there.

He added these two to the injector theory by stating this:

"When excess leakage into the cylindar happens after shutoff they eventually drain out in the housing, this is what you see in the water"
"The sneezing and coughing may be a result of the same injectors over injecting into a cylindar and that its burning off the excess"

All of this sounds legit but I'm a rookie at this.

What do you all think?
 

jadie56

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Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
1
Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

I have a 175hp Evinrude exhibiting the exact same behavior (No Gas leakage though). I would love to know the results of the Injection work. Thank you all for this forum and this thread, May very well save me hundred's if not thousands of dollars.

Anxiously awaiting the outcome ?

Jadie
 

Travis Randrup

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Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
1
Re: Warm starting behavior is weird - 2000 Evinrude FICHT 90hp

I have a 2000 115 ficht that i struggled with warm starting problems since it was a year old. Took it to dealer several times and two different mechanics and it was always new spark plugs, better battery, bad gas, blah blah blah. Finally this last summer my boat was in getting a new starter (imagine that) and i was talking to the mechanic about the warm start problem. He says right away thats its the fuel lift pump. They replaced that (which had a small hole) and boat starts like a dream always now. It only took them 10 years to solve a very simple and inexpensive problem. Glad to have it fixed but pissed it took so long for someone to finally figure out.
 

BA Boat Guy

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Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
2
I have the same problem with my 99 FICHT 150. Starts perfectly (almost too good) cold but if it sits for more than 5 to 10 minutes it acts flooded and takes a process to start. New plugs (complete tune up) and high test gas did not help. My mechanic thinks it's the injectors leaking but he removed them and pressure tested them to his satisfaction. He did note wet plugs in two cylinders and still thinks its somehow the injectors leaking.

Anyone got any thoughts?
 
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